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Modcon Vs CI Combo

 
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Old 01-04-2019, 10:25 PM   #1
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Modcon Vs CI Combo


So where does one start?
Well since I'm a ho with a 40 yo cast Weil standing pilot owner of an old gravity fed conversion who has done about 3 years of observations and tweaking of said house and systems..

This has become a hobby of mine.
I've done several heat loss calc and come up with the same things.

Heat loss calc vs delta t makes no difference to me as long as the boiler isn't condensing and house is warm.
Problem for me is the 3 spd grunfos. I keep adjusting the circulator speed to minimize the short cycling.

Mod con makes so much sense.
Try controlling 2 ci boilers.

Redundancy I like.
Simplicitly I like.

No simplicity in control of 2 ci boilers.
Technology must be a big part.
Yet. 2 ci boilers with only one working would still give me more heat than one mod con not happening at all.

It's a tricky complicated situation isn't it?


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Old 01-05-2019, 07:07 PM   #2
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


A nice mod con will give far more even heat in the house than 2 cast iron boilers will.

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Old 01-06-2019, 02:07 PM   #3
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Been there.

I believe that to be true. I have some control of even heating through balancing and circulator speed control.
I seem to be focused on that for several reasons.

First one being contractor.

If I could find one like most of you here I would more than likely have no fear in having a new system installed as you would advise.
Why?
You are obviously passionate about what you do or wouldn't be here. I'm sure it would be done right and I would have the backup service I would need.
I figure anyone that could do a mod con right would also be the right person to install 2 ci units correctly as well and that person would likely advise the mod con anyhow!

The biggest reason(s) I am thinking this way. Redundancy. Some heat is better than no heat. When we moved in here 3 years ago I was still living 1000 k away and wasn't home much. So I called one of the 2 local heating guys to come in and check the system out. My wife was here alone. It was November and beyond -25 c when they shut the boiler down. It took them over 2 weeks to get the chimney liner replaced. Luckily we had several heaters and a few electric fireplaces.

Redundancy. We were lucky. I explained to my wife over the phone how to strategically place heaters and fans to keep the plumbing and herself from freezing.

Two days later I come home. My shampoo was still partially frozen on the second floor. Wife was still cold.
Then I noticed there was almost no heat on the second floor.
We were now up in the +55 range and holding strong. I called them. They said it would be about a week before they could come out. I let that appt stand and went to work.
First thing. Bleed the rads. Second. Why was the boiler short cycling every 5 minutes or less? 2 aqua stats. One circulator. Circulator stat was set to shut down at 130 ish. High limit is the other one. It was set at 140 ish. So I started first by turning up the high limit until the boiler ran fairly steady. Then took my heat gun and started watching delta t and adjusted. Did not want return temp below 135, which it almost always was before ( I still can't believe this old weil isn't completely rotted out!) I quickly learned how to get good heat and some form of boiler ( cold start boiler, circulator low limit and boiler high limit shutoff no bypass at all) and my nice new chimney liner protected and get good heat but it's not a lot of fun running downstairs every 15 minutes to change speeds on the pump!

This is just the tip of the iceberg and this is a highly recommend and reputable company but it seemed that for the most part I was on my own. The other contractor in town, also reputable and highly recommended called me almost 2 months later. The company that started the work and said it would be a week called 2-3 weeks later. They are just that busy.

I'm trying to give you a picture of why I'm thinking the way I am. Why I'm thinking 2 boilers.

So the contractor who did the chimney liner calls back. I told them we are now heating fine but would like a new boiler quote. They owner came to do that. 20 minutes later he was gone. Yes I trust experience but after an over 14k quote for a TT solo 110 I had a couple of questions. I told him that from what I see online that this is one of the most controversial boilers and I simply wanted to.know if they had installed many of these.
Never heard from them again. Would not answer my emails.

I don't believe everything I read online, but almost all bad reviews about mod cons are due to installer error, lack of knowledge and understanding, lack of time or poor customer service on the part of boiler companies.

CI on the other hand are not as sensitive but I am comparing standing pilot and new CI technology, which is still a lot more simple than a mod con.

I'm not afraid of technology almost anywhere but here. It seems that I would rather have 2 small.simple boilers with xternal controls and a proper primary secondary and thermostatic 3 way mixing valves with bypass for boiler protection etc.

Sorry for the book. Lol
Just have the need to give you an idea of my situation.

Now the 2 facilities I worked at had several boilers, all different types of HVAC systems and it seemed the only ones that kept working with almost zero issues were the old older and oldest non modulating ones.2 and 3 year old Engineered air MUA were failing and it took a lot of troubleshooting to get them working and it seemed like someone was always working on one of them while the camus two stage and super hot single stagers kept on heating.

Finding the right contractor can be extremely difficult. There aren't a lot of guys like you around.

This is why I'm geared towards 2 simple CGA'S two ecm variable circulators and maybe a tekmar two stage control with DHW control. Along those lines.

One working boiler is better than none at all and troubleshooting a bad circulator or simply temporary bypassing and allowing gravity to once again do all the heating in this 82 gallon converted gravity system will still work if at least one boiler is firing.

Situation. I'm a worry wort. Lol
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Old 01-06-2019, 07:13 PM   #4
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


LOL.


Not really anything wrong with KISS technology.


Plus redundancy has its advantages.


Your current boiler will work best with a 20F temp difference. Whether or not it short cycles the burner a bit doesn't matter.



New CGAs will be the same, as far as just get the temp delta they want. When its warmer out, the lead boiler will have a shortened run time.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:46 PM   #5
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Well I can manage 25 delta t with this grunfos 15-58 on speed 3. I need 3 and a half to hit that 20. Lol

No bypass either. Just direct return but there are 6 feeds and 6 return lines all meeting together at reducers to and from a common line to the sediment bowls.

So one supply one separate return into what looks like homemade six inch diameter sediment bowls.with no drains and pipes welded to them of course. These are threaded to large reducers. Hard to explain.

There are actually two lengths of 1.5" pipes 23' long that are threaded right into elbows up to the reducers near the boiler with no unions or couplers. That's 23' of straight pipe with no breaks on the supply and return and there are more.like this so the only way to change the existing valves is to cut all pipes one by one then unthread everything. Yup its gonna be a fun summer I can see. Lol
It all has to come out because there is no shut offs and only 2 unions on all 12 lines. Well there are shut offs about 115 years old and all were threaded from the boiler up or rads down. It's a huge pain to change a valve at any rad. The return side at each rad has a normal elbow not an ell.

When I do change one I have to drain the system and cut a pipe off in the basement, then unthread that piece of pipe, then add coupler, union, ball valve, nipples and get length threaded, tee and drain on supply and return just for maintenance. That's the biggest issue is the lack of shut offs and changing all of that is a big job. To get around it so I can isolate a zone I have to cut pipes after the near boiler piping so I can drain that zone and keep the rest of the house warm. I've done a couple of them so far and trust me, those 1.5" pipes that have likely been there since the house was built in 1904 don't wanna come off easy. 24" pipe wrench with a telpost snipe and torch. Lol At least the new stuff has threaded right in but somethings gonna break one of these times.

I'm thinking mixing on the primary loop through a ESBE 140 degree thermic three way on the bypass to the return...
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:35 AM   #6
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Insulate the piping in the basement, send the heat to the living spaces....

a 2000 Btus here and 1000 Btus there = real improvement for the kids and Momma.

Next year, think about getting the brick treated with a water repellent surface treatment, It will lower the perm ability of the 100 year old masonry...

Time to consider tuck pointing the whole house?

Stucco over 2-3" of foil face rock wool? ~20-40K$ around here, another wythe of brick with a cavity & foam would only be few thousand $ more.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:53 AM   #7
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Fourth Gen.

Now there's some stuff I didn't know.
I've done some sill plate insulting and had a few odd main floor side walls apart and insulated with the dap spray foam kits, fiberglass and/or blue board and vapor barrier. The dining room and pantry (2015' ttl) needed it pretty bad. The pantry had a poorly insulated roof above and the dining room has a roof above a window lined alcove that only had wood shavings. These two things have made a big difference. I'll have a good look at getting that stuff done.

Wasn't really sure if I should insulate the pipes downstairs but now I know.

I have over 350' of 1.5" pipe down there and just figured it was what was helping warm the main floor hardwood. Basement w/o insulation never gets below +52 f and that's even at -40 out but I never thought about the permeability of the brick itself. Foundation is 18" stone about 2' above grade.
Basement isn't and will likely never be finished but that doesn't mean it can't be fully insulated. I agree that should be priority in some ways, but I'm sure this old weil is not gonna last much longer and since the pocketbook isn't bottomless the boiler needs doing first! With heat loss based on future improvements of course. We have more than enough electric heaters we can use on those - 40 days if the boiler (s) are temporarily too small.
So far my calcs tell me at present two cga 25's are almost big enough but I'm going to redo that heat loss. Simple. I have all window wall and room sizes as per slant fin and the few things I have already done with sealing and insulating have made a big difference.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the guidance. More than you could know.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:55 AM   #8
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


BTW I'm not stuck on weil cga. It's just common here and I have faith in weil.
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Old 01-07-2019, 06:17 AM   #9
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Had to look up tuck pointing. Lol

I've done a little bit. Mostly on the stone foundation and some bad spots. I found an actual 86" chunk of stone completely missing under a deck in the foundation. Could see right outside!
Work in progress and no more mice.
Cats look kinda bored now.
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Old 01-19-2019, 02:36 PM   #10
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
Insulate the piping in the basement, send the heat to the living spaces....

a 2000 Btus here and 1000 Btus there = real improvement for the kids and Momma.

Next year, think about getting the brick treated with a water repellent surface treatment, It will lower the perm ability of the 100 year old masonry...

Time to consider tuck pointing the whole house?

Stucco over 2-3" of foil face rock wool? ~20-40K$ around here, another wythe of brick with a cavity & foam would only be few thousand $ more.
Not sure on how accurate this is but according to what I've seen online.
350' of 1.5" pipe delivering a water temp of 165 F through an ambient temp of 50 F I could be losing over 30k btu in the basement alone?
If all of this is right and I put a 1" fiberglass on those pipes I could potentially stop 50-75% of those losses? That sounds unrealistic. Could the loss be that high?
According to my heat loss calc(which could very well be wrong) I would need around 88000 btu on design day( I used -31F which we just hit today) the IBR of this old weil is 104k (gross of 120 but I doubt it's up there now though.)
With the grundfos 15-58 on high speed the boiler ran a 22 delta T ( lower speed=higher delta) but could not get more than 165 out of the boiler. House is nice and warm and rads are all between 145 and 155
If the calc on the pipe losses are close then my heat loss calc would seem to be close?
Am I even getting warm here? Lol
I would really like to know if I main the ballpark here. The two contractors that were here quoted me based on the IBR of the present boiler it would seem since no heat loss was done at that time.





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Old 01-19-2019, 03:27 PM   #11
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


By the way, the delta t increase with lowered circulator speeds also results in lower rad temps that do not catch up. Assuming heat loss in the basement and/or lack of flow

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Old 01-19-2019, 07:10 PM   #12
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


My POCO extended last years rebates to March 31st....

Get an energy audit with a thermal cam after dark, long enough for solar heated masses to disburse.. or pre dawn...

Many times un closed windows and leaks will effect the frost/ snow on the roofs and walls.

Intelligent study will yeild some of the info the thermal camera would.

do you have a cold air supply for the boiler, or are you still burning room temp air for combustion gases?

Clean sheet, I'd have all fuel burners in a masonry/firewalled room that is air tight except for the supply duct (and chimney of course) to the out of doors (insulated where it passes through heated spaces, with rat and rain barriers

In addition to increasing the Net efficiency of the boiler, outside air reduces the lower air pressure in the home created by the chimney draft, further lowering heating demand from fewer air changes with the out-of-doors....
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Old 01-19-2019, 08:58 PM   #13
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Still burning indoor air. Plan was to seek advice on a fresh air intake, which you have just given.
I was not aware the fresh air had that much impact on the system. Never would have thought to seal the room.
One way I find air leaks is to feel or candle around doors and windows with the boiler on and off so sealing off the burning room makes sense.

Boiler room is 12 x27' with the nearest wood wall (tounge and groove shiplap on 2x4's) being 7.5' away from the boiler. Boiler could go just about anywhere in there but its pretty much in the centerline of the house. (Thats likely part of the reason all 12 rads are pretty close to each other temp wise with just the one circulator )
Two walls are the 18" stone foundation. Two windows in the room. One was boarded up about 5' from the boiler. Perfect intake spot. Ceiling is 6'3" to the joists.

Is it necessary to firewall in this instance?

It will be very easy to add the fresh air. Eventually it will be insulated as well. Seems like it might be the best room to insulate first as opposed to insulating the pipes. More than half of the pipe is in this room, around 275' of it. 6x1.5 "supply and 6 x1.5 " returns (plus a couple of smaller lines teed off of those.) Ultimately if cash allowed it would be really easy to have 6 separate zones! But that would not be cheap.

Not sure how I would seal the room at the ceiling though. It's tounge and groove subfloor and the pipes run below the floor joists but hey if running beads with a caulking gun was what it took i would do that!

I have gone around the entire house with my temp gun and/or candle to identify cold spots and temp fluctuations around windows and sill plate etc inside and out. I've always payed very close attention to sealing around windows and foundation and looking for frost, ice dams, snow on and around roof, overhangs etc in any house I've lived in, including past rentals. I still use the candle trick around the house to find air leaks. Not high tech but neither is this house and it works!

Thanks again for the advice.
Another step in the right direction!

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Old 01-20-2019, 03:22 AM   #14
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Remember, as you reduce heat loss in the basement. Its temp drops lower, and so do the temps of the floor above it. So your first floor's floor temp will be colder, which can make you feel colder when walking or resting your feet on them.
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Old 01-20-2019, 11:31 AM   #15
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


My wife is at the age where I had suggested we consider radiant floor heating on the main floor, to which I got a resounding NO!
Lol. She likes her bare feet on the cool maple hardwood floors.

(Btw I couldn't get more than 165 out of the boiler because that's where I had it set. 170 now with corresponding 5rad increase and still close to 20 delta. A little more circulator and a little less fire time)

Oddly enough almost all of the pipe in the basement runs under the front hallway and stairs to the second floor. They piped almost everything in north south runs along and up to the outside walls and then went up on the inside (finished space)of the walls between the ceiling joists.

( I've changed some of that so its hidden now. Moved a rad in the kitchen from a south to an east wall and restored that rad as part of the new kitchen. The hydronic plumbing went straight up the middle of the 19' south kitchen wall in order to supply 2 rads upstairs. There were tees and reducers right in the kitchen. So I replumbed into a corner through the basement and then went up and over to those upstairs rads. Everyone loves the brick veneer "chimney" i built in that corner to hide those pipes.) Anyways...

Almost all of the 1.5" black is close to(within 7' of the foundation walls)

Picture 12 x1.5" pipes spaced in about a 6' width in 27 foot lengths, starting within 1.5' of the foundation wall. One would think they would immediately want to run towards the center of the house first, then up. Not.sure what the dead men knew then but it was a big old coal gravity at one time...

I went and checked the(18"stone) foundation outside the boiler room area last night. We have about 18" of snow against the house everywhere except there is NO SNOW touching the boiler room area for almost 20'!

It is now -33. It's been sitting near -30 for days. This is the coldest temp so far this winter. Record low ever here was -44.


The boiler room, which I installed a temporary door on last night( it's a start) is at an average 65 while the other parts of the basement are seeing ambient under 50, yet all the main floors are at temps around 2-4 less than ambient room temp main floor, except the floors where the boiler pipes run. Those floors are at slightly ABOVE ambient temp, which makes sense.


This is the first house I've owned where the floors are not impacted much by low basement temps and I have no idea how that could be, but it is. I had another stone foundation house( furnace heated ) When the basement got that cold, the floors were freezing. That makes sense. Insulating that basement made a huge impact...

I just took my temp gun and some of these foundation walls are under 40. Boiler room foundation walls are 60ish

So it seems to me that insulating that boiler room should be high priority. My heat loss in that area must be grossly underestimated. Most of the heat from those pipes etc must be convecting through the foundation walls, which I estimate now could be upwards of around 18k btu.
Could I actually be losing that much in that area alone?

I'm still pretty sure 88 k output should do the job. That is my estimate considering an insulated basement. Right now I calculated that I should need 96 k (on design day of -31) which seems really close to what the old weil is at 104 IBR net.

I insulated with spray foam, fiberglass and vapor barrier 2 outside walls and a ceiling (which has a roof over it that was r12 ish now r 60 ish because I had plenty of clearance to add) in a 6x10 room on the main floor that had a 2000 watt electric baseboard and removed that heater. It's WARMER now by at least 20 without that heat source(no door, it's a pantry off the kitchen with a 42x 80" doorway) 2000 watts that was running steady now not needed.

That 1000 btu here and 2000 there is sure adding up but this heat loss calc thing is getting confusing where the basement and foundation are concerned.

I think I should just start building an r12 wall in the boiler room. Apparently more than that in a stone foundation situation can cause structural issues. I'll have to look into that more.

Btw it was Senator Robert Watson who built this house in 1904. He was also a successful millwright.

This house is like Oak Island. More questions than answers. Lol

Hey you guys are awesome. Thanks for listening to my ramblings and helping me. I read a few Dan Holohan books(3) as per suggestions by guys on this site and some John Siegenthaler stuff online, and more.

It's easier to accept direction from someone who is not trying to sell me something and will most certainly help me with contractor selection. I do not like the "this is what you are getting don't ask questions" idea.

Thanks again guys...
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:42 PM   #16
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Quote:
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One would think they would immediately want to run towards the center of the house first, then up. Not.sure what the dead men knew then but it was a big old coal gravity at one time...
Probably the same logic that dictates placing radiators on outside walls and under windows.

You do realize that by hiding those vertical runs, you're depriving yourself of the little bit of heat they radiate? Not much in the big picture, but back in the days of no insulation, they squeezed those systems for all they could.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:46 PM   #17
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Makes sense. They knew heat wanted to rise, but likely didn't know much about conduction.
When I did the kitchen it was lath and plaster off then insulate etc. The one small 6"x36" 9 section 2 column rad is doing a great job keeping this 14'x19' kitchen warm especially considering 3 walls are outside walls.

The old 4'x4'x6' riveted 3/8" plate steel coal burner shell is still down in the boiler room. That thing must have thrown off some kinda heat. Gotta get a plasma torch going down there someday soon.
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Old 01-20-2019, 03:54 PM   #18
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


Never thought to check before but that brick veneer pipe hiding chimney I built is 13 warmer than the insulated subway tile walls are, and about 5 warmer than ambient in the room. Guess those bricks are picking up some heat from those pipes. Nice.
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Old 01-21-2019, 05:39 PM   #19
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


You don't live in the basement.... keep it above freezing during the -44 Fahrenheit windy nights....mission accomplished...

The fireproofing is just common sense around an open flame device that is in its senile years, soon to fail badly somehow...

Install the (paperless)? drywall firerock over the boiler/ N.gas? Hot water heater ASAP the rock walls aren't much of a possible fuel supply....

Metal door? metal studs if you can't lay block/brick?

The whole basement could be the fireroom if the ceiling is firerated...and the walls are immflamable rock...

but a small fire room could be used as the cold air plenum with out cooling down a large part of the first floor---the space around the boiler intake need to have un fetter outside air flow so you aren't using heated air for combustion and sucking heated air up the chimney even while the fire is NOT burning.......

With the correct fitting you capture some waste heat from the exhaust vent using either a bare pipe(the heat just heating the basement area...) or a double or triple wall pipe with the cold air feed through stack pipe to pre heat out door air/ cool the stack gases.

Making sure the stack gas remained hot enough(over 212 degrees F.) they don't rain out in or near the chimney--no 'White' water vapour, just clear steam at chimney exit point....
Icing = dead from CO2 and CO from blocked iced up chimney.

Vent the pipe chases if the room they pass through is cold, or even install ADJUSTable vents for fine tuning.

Was the original steam heat a single pipe system? a peculator style?

The iron plate a bottom of an "turtle backed" boiler? That had concrete poured on the shell for thermal mass to collect and moderate heat so Home owners didn't have to stay awake ALL night...

Running a programmable t-Stat I hope.....
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Old 01-22-2019, 08:45 PM   #20
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Re: Modcon Vs CI Combo


I'm understanding most of what you say but not quite understanding why I should not insulate the basement? The wall outside the boiler room is melting snow. I must be misunderstanding what you say.

It's going to be really difficult to do anything to that ceiling, but how far from the boiler should I go? If you could see the mess of pipes...


I'm picturing some boiler rooms I've been in and suprised that no one suggested, nor had I given any thought to creating a ventilated burning room as such, or adding ceiling protection. This can and will be done but it will be a huge job. The mess of pipes again...
The water heater was replaced with an electric in 2011, likely because the chimney liner was on its way out. I plan on going indirect.

I stuck my temp gun in the vent hood and saw 275-310 temp. When they changed the liner b vent(i think)was used. I can put my hand on it. No more than 100F right above the hood.
The exhaust liner runs from the boiler through the stone foundation to a masonry (brick) chimney outside the house. Exhaust itself looks like any other house and I see no signs of ice or anything like that. Tops out at around 30' and It looks clean.
There in no condensate drain on the exhaust and I've never heard any condensate dripping on the exchanger. That exhaust is pretty hot, so I think I'm ok there.

The old boiler is tombstone shaped, as tall as it is wide. I really don't know anything about it, but I don't think it was ever steam or single pipe. The rads all have bleeder valves at the top of the rads. No evidence of steam vents anywhere.

The piping is difficult to explain, but looks original and run under hardwood floors upstairs. There are no markings anywhere to indicate size, pressure rating, manufacturer or WOG markings, there are no markings anywhere, but they are sched 40 npt. I had to cut a few of them off, unthread, and add tees, ball valves and unions etc.The new pipe threaded right into the old but the old pipe needed my 24" pipe wrenches and at one point I had to use a telepost as a snipe to unthread the pipes I cut! A rad valve second floor started leaking. No shut offs too that zone. There are now!
The piping...
There is what I estimate to be a 6" tee on both the supply and return.
On the bottom of the supply tee there is about a 12" threaded length of pipe with a bowl welded to the end of it. This is where the 1.5 " boiler supply runs in.

On either end of the largest tee is a close nipple, followed by a reducer tee, which has 2 or 3 reducer bushings to accomodate one of the 1.5 " supply pipes, then another close nipple on the end which has a second smaller tee reducer! That reducer has the other two 1.5 " supply pipes. Both sides of this large tee are the same for a total of 6 main supply pipes. The return is almost identical.

The first supply pipe off that large reducer tee feeds one huge rad on the main floor.
The second supply pipe from the smaller tee feeds another rad on the main floor, and at the end of that tee the last supply pipe feeds 3 rads upstairs. All are 1.5" pipe. Both sides of that huge tee are plumbed the same.
6 separate supply and 6 separate returns that meet up at these huge tees. A couple of these supply and return lines have 1" supply and returns to the second floor.

The worst part of this all is there are only two or 3 unions ANYWHERE in the basement. There are almost no couplers and only half of the supply and returns have shut off valves, which are completely frozen open. They literally threaded almost everything from the rads down to those big tees (or vice versa likely)

I worked in the oilfield and had a pipe fitter teach me how to run a rigid threader and how to run and replace pipe, and I have never seen anything like this anywhere.
There are lengths of pipe in several places over 20' long in one piece that are threaded into elbows, then more pipe, then another elbow then pipe etc. No couplers or unions.

I am listening and want to do this right. It seems I will have no choice but to unhook the plumbing from the boiler(i WILL NOT TOUCH THE GAS LINE!) to make a sealed room and fix all of that plumbing.

The alterations that I made to accommodate that rad relocation and pipe location change. I was told by local contractor they would have to get a small crew in for a week to do it and they were just too busy then, so I asked if they would cut and thread some pipe for me and sell me needed parts. The owner of that company said "are you going to tackle that yourself"? That's a big job. I said yup I'm not afraid of those little pipes and I got it done!
The guy who came and ran the gas line for the stove later on said what I did would easily have cost over 5k. I did it for around a grand and it works, so I CAN do some of this and want to do this myself but it HAS to be done right!

I am listening closely to your advice...

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