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Mini Split Questions And Help

 
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Old 01-26-2020, 08:18 PM   #1
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Mini Split Questions And Help


I'm a 25 year kitchen and bath contractor restoring a mid 1800's home. The total house is 4200 square feet. The upstairs is about 1,500 square feet, has four bedrooms a large hall and two bathrooms. For the guys that need the details, it has 9' 3" ceilings and each of the windows are 36" x 72" new replacements with LowE and Argon. Walls and ceilings are fully insulated. I live in eastern South Carolina.

I've been working on this house for about four years and a couple of years ago I had my HVAC guy gave me a quote for an all new system, and duct up and downstairs. Fully electric split system up and gas for downstairs. I don't remember the size of the unit but if I remember right it was a Carrier. Total was about $27K.

Now, here's where I need help. When I got the quote, I had fully intended to sell this house but now I've falling in love with it and I'm exploring my options as if I'm going to be living there and paying the utility bills to heat and cool that upstairs all the time. I'm in a great area for this to be a B&B so that is my plans. I'm thinking this is an ideal situation for a mini-split. I want the smart convenience of one room at a time, full controllable by the occupant.

I've watched tons of YouTube videos and apparently some of these units are very DIY friendly now and reasonably intelligent people can install them without being a trained HVAC tech mainly because they come pre-charged (among other reasons)

The manager of one of my two local supply houses is an old golf buddy so I stopped by to see what they carry and start pricing. I like doing business local when possible. He said they carry Daikin, have had tremendous success with the brand and very few service issues. He highly recommended it.... but he can't sell it to me because I'm not a licensed HVAC tech. Well crap. That's the first question. Why can I buy this on Amazon and not from him? It's a 60,000 BTU 18.8 SEER, 8 zone unit with 7K-7K-7K-7K-7K-7K-9K-9K (I'll probably change this up a little based on design recommendations) for about $7,500 delivered. He says he's not even allowed to give me a price. He said... "We like to sell stuff to people who know what they are doing" Yea, pissed me off so Amazon it is and it's direct from Daikin.

Next up... design. I've included a basic scale drawing of the upstairs with windows included. A design calculator I found says 7K should be more than efficient for each bedroom but I'd like your input, but what would you do in the small bathrooms? One big unit, maybe a 12K in the hall that could handle the hall and both bathrooms and just go with a 5 zone or go ahead and over kill the bathrooms with 7K in each?

Which is quieter, the wall unit or the ceiling unit? More efficient?

Downstairs.... would you stay with a traditional system or stay the course? I'll probably also use a Daikin unit downstairs, so is there some technology that Daikin uses to combine the two systems that maybe I haven't found on the internet?

https://imgur.com/8qvXE3h

I'm all ears.
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Old 01-30-2020, 05:41 PM   #2
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Apparently nobody has a clue....

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Old 01-30-2020, 05:57 PM   #3
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Iíve got Mitsubishi. If you will be using the unit for heat get the highest seer rating possible. 18.8 is not great. They donít really do multiple rooms well unless it is an open floor plan. To get true multiple zone units you will spend big money. Youíre in the Carolinas so you wonít be doing much hearing I guess. Not like here in MA anyway. Thatís all Iíve got.
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Old 01-30-2020, 06:55 PM   #4
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Daikin is good. A single 60k no name brand unit seems risky. I'd maybe do a couple smaller units, or stick with the ducted air handler version. Much nicer looking than a giant wall wart in each room too.

Sometimes ducted costs more just due to labor to install ducts. I've found pricing of $2500-3000 per head for mini splits, whether they are individual or multiple head units.

What's the average temp on the coldest week of the year? Efficiency goes down as temperature does, so electric bill goes up exponentially. Gas downstairs might still make the most sense with splits up. Up is where you really want the A/C anyway for summer months.
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Old 01-31-2020, 05:13 AM   #5
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


https://cms.daikincomfort.com/docs/d....pdf?sfvrsn=17
Quote:

What Units Does This Warranty Not Cover?

This warranty does not apply to: Units that are ordered over the Internet, by telephone, or by other electronic means unless the unit is installed by a dealer adhering to all applicable federal, state, and local
codes, policies, and licensing requirements.
You may want to consider if you want a warranty or not on it. If you do want a warranty, then you need to have a dealer install it. Or lie, and say he installed it.
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Old 01-31-2020, 09:44 AM   #6
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


I installed this with one helper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DM...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Zero hvac experience, took less than half a day and we had to run conduit halfway around the house and run the refrigerant lines to the second floor.

I’d do it again because it saved a few thousand dollars. The wife loves it because I keep the ground floor near 65 in the winter and she can blast this thing set to 78 for her upstairs office. It does great until the temps get below 10 degrees.

In the summer it’s comparable to the biggest window ac unit available but MUCH quieter. The upstairs is about 1000 sq feet. On really hot days we run a small fan during the day to help circulate the cool air.

If I had known about the ceiling mount options I would have gone that route, it is ugly.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:01 AM   #7
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by WBailey1041 View Post
I installed this with one helper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DM...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Zero hvac experience, took less than half a day and we had to run conduit halfway around the house and run the refrigerant lines to the second floor.

I’d do it again because it saved a few thousand dollars. The wife loves it because I keep the ground floor near 65 in the winter and she can blast this thing set to 78 for her upstairs office. It does great until the temps get below 10 degrees.

In the summer it’s comparable to the biggest window ac unit available but MUCH quieter. The upstairs is about 1000 sq feet. On really hot days we run a small fan during the day to help circulate the cool air.

If I had known about the ceiling mount options I would have gone that route, it is ugly.
I used the 36K to cool the entire house. Well worth the cost savings.

About 6 hours start to finish with running the EMT and clean up.

Tom

Last edited by tjbnwi; 02-01-2020 at 10:03 AM.
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Old 02-01-2020, 10:13 PM   #8
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


As far as your HVAC buddy goes....you certainly can buy Daikin online, yourself without any contractor.
The bathrooms, or any small rooms are always going to be a problem. Like a closet, they usually do not get the benefit of conditioned air except through the doorways.
You can heat the floors, install small ceiling / circulator fans and that will "help" to some degree. And then you can always get some other bids. Just because he is "your guy" doesn't mean he has the best price. He will understand if he's a professional.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:56 AM   #9
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by Morning Wood View Post
Iíve got Mitsubishi. If you will be using the unit for heat get the highest seer rating possible. 18.8 is not great. They donít really do multiple rooms well unless it is an open floor plan. To get true multiple zone units you will spend big money. Youíre in the Carolinas so you wonít be doing much hearing I guess. Not like here in MA anyway. Thatís all Iíve got.
I'm in north eastern SC in the flat lands. Our typical cold winter nights mean temps in the 20's and warming back up to the 40's and above during the day. It's not Wisconsin but it's also not Florida. We'll get spells in the low teens every year.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:58 AM   #10
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
https://cms.daikincomfort.com/docs/d....pdf?sfvrsn=17


You may want to consider if you want a warranty or not on it. If you do want a warranty, then you need to have a dealer install it. Or lie, and say he installed it.
The sheet that you linked to is a commercial warranty. I'm talking about a residence.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:00 AM   #11
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Re: Mini Split Questions And Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by WBailey1041 View Post
I installed this with one helper.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01DM...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Zero hvac experience, took less than half a day and we had to run conduit halfway around the house and run the refrigerant lines to the second floor.

Iíd do it again because it saved a few thousand dollars. The wife loves it because I keep the ground floor near 65 in the winter and she can blast this thing set to 78 for her upstairs office. It does great until the temps get below 10 degrees.

In the summer itís comparable to the biggest window ac unit available but MUCH quieter. The upstairs is about 1000 sq feet. On really hot days we run a small fan during the day to help circulate the cool air.

If I had known about the ceiling mount options I would have gone that route, it is ugly.
Thanks...!

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