Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub - Health & Safety - Contractor Talk

Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-26-2010, 04:40 PM   #1
Registered User
 
llpcas's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Carpenter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10

Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


At a residential job site if an Osha inspector sees a sub doing something that is not in compliance, who will get fined? The subcontractor who is doing the unsafe job which the Osha inpsector sees? Or the General Contractor of the job? Or both?

Has to do with a mason and scaffolding.
llpcas is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 04-26-2010, 04:59 PM   #2
Motorboatin' son of a ...
 
BKFranks's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,104
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


The general, the sub, or both may be fined.

Read this: http://www.clausen.com/index.cfm/fa/...actor_Risk.cfm

and this:
http://ehstoday.com/construction/new...sha-case-7981/

Advertisement

__________________

BKFranks is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 05:01 PM   #3
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,746
Rewards Points: 2,040

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Sounds like mebbe you like the GC but don't like the mason?
__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-26-2010, 05:03 PM   #4
David Festa
 
festerized's Avatar
 
Trade: Framing Contractor
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ocean County NJ
Posts: 2,561
Rewards Points: 2,030

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Everyone including the land owner gets a fine
festerized is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 05:52 PM   #5
Pompass Ass
 
bwalley's Avatar
 
Trade: Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Plant City, Florida
Posts: 2,090
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by llpcas View Post
At a residential job site if an Osha inspector sees a sub doing something that is not in compliance, who will get fined? The subcontractor who is doing the unsafe job which the Osha inpsector sees? Or the General Contractor of the job? Or both?

Has to do with a mason and scaffolding.
The General Contractor, the Sub Contractor and even the employees who are in violation.
bwalley is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 07:27 PM   #6
Pro
 
NJ Brickie's Avatar
 
Trade: Bricklayer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 759
Rewards Points: 750

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
The General Contractor, the Sub Contractor and even the employees who are in violation.
Employees are not fined by OSHA.
In your case the Sub will most likely get a fine. The GC may or may not get a fine. If the GC can show documentation that they have a safety plan in place and what the sub was doing was in violation of their plan they may not get fined. But they still can.
NJ Brickie is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 07:51 PM   #7
Remodeling Professionals
 
buildenterprise's Avatar
 
Trade: New Construction and Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,267
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Let me guess, they've got 30' of staging set up with no bracing to the house? Plywood shims under the feet too, right? Sounds like the masons down here.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by llpcas View Post
At a residential job site if an Osha inspector sees a sub doing something that is not in compliance, who will get fined? The subcontractor who is doing the unsafe job which the Osha inpsector sees? Or the General Contractor of the job? Or both?

Has to do with a mason and scaffolding.
buildenterprise is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 08:18 PM   #8
Project Manager HFH..
 
JumboJack's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lakewood CA.
Posts: 3,711
Rewards Points: 2,004

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


In all of my years of doing residential remodeling (and quite a few commercial TI's) I have never seen an OSHA inspector on a job.....Ever.
__________________
in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
JumboJack is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 08:20 PM   #9
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,114
Rewards Points: 427

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by JumboJack View Post
In all of my years of doing residential remodeling (and quite a few commercial TI's) I have never seen an OSHA inspector on a job.....Ever.
Did you have your fingers crossed when you typed that? I concur, but would never say it out loud.
__________________
I'd love to replace all the dumbness in this room but the budget is tight and the stupidity is plentiful!

Easy Gibson
Warren is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
MattK (03-01-2013)
Old 04-26-2010, 08:22 PM   #10
Remodeling Professionals
 
buildenterprise's Avatar
 
Trade: New Construction and Remodeling Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Jersey Shore
Posts: 1,267
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Did you have your fingers crossed when you typed that? I concur, but would never say it out loud.
I'll third that, knocking on wood with fingers crossed....
buildenterprise is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 08:26 PM   #11
Project Manager HFH..
 
JumboJack's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lakewood CA.
Posts: 3,711
Rewards Points: 2,004

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Did you have your fingers crossed when you typed that? I concur, but would never say it out loud.
It's bad luck to be superstitious....
__________________
in texas with framing and cornish people will do it for 3.00 a foot. What do yall think about that? Just laber
JumboJack is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:08 PM   #12
Pro
 
rjconstructs's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential remodel
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 695
Rewards Points: 230

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Osha can always fine the contractor after an accident. I have seen them on the news then, dishing out fines for everything. Never seen one on a job.
rjconstructs is offline  
Old 04-26-2010, 09:32 PM   #13
Pompass Ass
 
bwalley's Avatar
 
Trade: Certified Building and Certified A/C Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Plant City, Florida
Posts: 2,090
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brickie View Post
Employees are not fined by OSHA.
In your case the Sub will most likely get a fine. The GC may or may not get a fine. If the GC can show documentation that they have a safety plan in place and what the sub was doing was in violation of their plan they may not get fined. But they still can.
OSHA can and does fine employees.
bwalley is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 03:42 PM   #14
Pro
 
NJ Brickie's Avatar
 
Trade: Bricklayer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 759
Rewards Points: 750

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
OSHA can and does fine employees.
Unless you can direct me where this information is available I am sticking with no they do not fine employees. They can fine employers on a per employee basis. If 15 people are not wearing PPE the contractor may receive 15 citations.
NJ Brickie is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 04:56 PM   #15
Member
 
SMA14's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor & Limited Roofing
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 43
Rewards Points: 25

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


OSHA makes thier own rules. You ever try to read the stuff online it actully has a bottom part that says how you should actually interpret what was written at the top. They can fine whomever they want. If you read about it they can fine your company even if it is a subcontractor. They have some 10 or 20 point question that decides if the person is really a subcontractor...even though your insurance company and the government accepts it. They have their own rules.

Long story short they went on one of our subs jobs. Told them it was just a warning...by the time it got back over to the office it turned into a citation. The person subbing from us happened to have the same last name as us so they assumed that they were business owners. We showed all documents to prove other wise. They did'nt care still said it was an owner in some way. Had to hire an attorney. After a year and a half of fighting back and forth and $12,000 later they finally agreed it was a sub that worked for us. It was a nightmare. God Bless anyone whoever has to deal with them. I do not wish my worst enemy to have to go through that. WELL maybe a few of my competitors...LOL.
SMA14 is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 05:04 PM   #16
The Duke
 
Kent Whitten's Avatar
 
Trade: Cabinet Maker
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Portland, Maine
Posts: 14,746
Rewards Points: 2,040

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


I've never heard of any employees being fined. Not saying it can't be, I have just never heard of this. I'd like to see the the documentation on this if anyone has a link.
__________________
If you correct your mind, the rest of your life will fall into place ~Lao Tzu

SalmonFallsCabinetry.com

Salmon Falls Cabinetry on Facebook
Kent Whitten is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 06:33 PM   #17
Pro
 
Framer53's Avatar
 
Trade: Handyman
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Utica,NY
Posts: 3,005
Rewards Points: 366

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by framerman View Post
I've never heard of any employees being fined. Not saying it can't be, I have just never heard of this. I'd like to see the the documentation on this if anyone has a link.

afetyNewsAlert.com Now OSHA can issue fines for each worker without PPE <script language=JavaScript src="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/vj?z=pbp&dim=328467&kw=&click=&abr =$scriptiniframe"></script><noscript><a href="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/cc?z=pbp"><img src="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/vc?z=pbp&dim=328467&kw=&click=&abr =$imginiframe" width="468" height="60" border="0"></a></noscript>
Now OSHA can issue fines for each worker without PPE

Posted in: In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views, OSHA news, PPE (protective equipment), Safety training


http://www.safetynewsalert.com/now-o...r-without-ppe/

Had to look it up myself!
Framer53 is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:40 PM   #18
Pro
 
NJ Brickie's Avatar
 
Trade: Bricklayer
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 759
Rewards Points: 750

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by Framer53 View Post
afetyNewsAlert.com Now OSHA can issue fines for each worker without PPE <script language=JavaScript src="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/vj?z=pbp&dim=328467&kw=&click=&abr =$scriptiniframe"></script><noscript><a href="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/cc?z=pbp"><img src="http://rotator.adjuggler.com/servlet/ajrotator/859728/0/vc?z=pbp&dim=328467&kw=&click=&abr =$imginiframe" width="468" height="60" border="0"></a></noscript>
Now OSHA can issue fines for each worker without PPE

Posted in: In this week's e-newsletter, Latest News & Views, OSHA news, PPE (protective equipment), Safety training


http://www.safetynewsalert.com/now-o...r-without-ppe/

Had to look it up myself!

Those fines still goto the company. I have had OSHA training and have been told that employees can not be fined. Like framerman said, I would like a link to this documentation. I could be wrong, but I do not think that it exists.
NJ Brickie is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 07:50 PM   #19
Pro
 
oldfrt's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northwest Connecticut
Posts: 2,565
Rewards Points: 94

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brickie View Post
Those fines still goto the company. I have had OSHA training and have been told that employees can not be fined. Like framerman said, I would like a link to this documentation. I could be wrong, but I do not think that it exists.
From what I learned in the few months I did commercial work this past winter,the GC is responsible,and it is up to PM to see that the subs are compliant.
oldfrt is offline  
Old 04-27-2010, 08:59 PM   #20
Pro
 
Anti-wingnut's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Superintendent
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,936
Rewards Points: 3,422

Re: Osha Fines - Who Pays General Or Sub


Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalley View Post
OSHA can and does fine employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ Brickie View Post
Unless you can direct me where this information is available I am sticking with no they do not fine employees. They can fine employers on a per employee basis. If 15 people are not wearing PPE the contractor may receive 15 citations.
We may be waiting a while. Big Walley often makes claims that he cannot back up with references.

Advertisement

Anti-wingnut is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New OSHA standard OsNap Health & Safety 8 01-08-2010 09:19 PM
Question about General Contractor Clover General Discussion 3 11-03-2009 12:46 PM
Illinois Attorney General Files Suit v. 7 Storm Chaser Contractors Ed the Roofer Roofing 3 04-23-2009 08:43 AM
FREE 30 Hour Osha Training Course Schedule, Sponsored By NRCA..... Ed the Roofer Health & Safety 2 04-17-2009 08:36 PM
General Contractors general liability rates DRButler Windows, Siding and Doors 2 09-05-2008 07:30 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?