Zmax Vs. SS Hangers - Decks & Fencing - Contractor Talk

Zmax Vs. SS Hangers

 
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:11 PM   #1
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Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Bidding a job where I can throw a rock to the ocean. Despite the location the numbers need to be kept as tight as possible.

Now I know SS joist hangers are ideal to use in this location but I'm wondering if anyone has any real world input with Zmax hardware near the ocean.

I have seen OLD hangers rust through but they were not coated very well. I have also seen other contractors use standard Zmax hangers by the ocean.....but wondered how they hold up.
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:42 PM   #2
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffaah View Post
Bidding a job where I can throw a rock to the ocean. Despite the location the numbers need to be kept as tight as possible.

Now I know SS joist hangers are ideal to use in this location but I'm wondering if anyone has any real world input with Zmax hardware near the ocean.

I have seen OLD hangers rust through but they were not coated very well. I have also seen other contractors use standard Zmax hangers by the ocean.....but wondered how they hold up.
Near the ocean you have to use SS 18-gauge Type 316 hanger and SDS nails, which made for use near the salt and ocean because it has highest corrosion resistance. Keep in mind, that hanger must be rated to handle uplift loads as well...

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Old 02-25-2012, 12:43 PM   #3
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


I've got some ss hardware I'd like to sell off if you go that route
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Old 02-25-2012, 12:46 PM   #4
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Depends, when do they want to rebuild the deck?

Stainless Steel is really the only option in those areas - there are a few other tricks to slow down the issues, but with the labor & everything else involved you would just be better going SS
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:16 PM   #5
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


HDPE liners might slow it down

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Old 02-25-2012, 02:46 PM   #6
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Ryan,
are u framing w/ 3x material in that picture
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Old 02-25-2012, 02:47 PM   #7
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


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Ryan,
are u framing w/ 3x material in that picture
2x


the dimensions do look funny though. I think it's the camera perspective
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Old 02-26-2012, 03:10 PM   #8
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


How much do people pay for those stainless steel hangers? I work with a stamping plant and he doesn't care whether it's stainless or not.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:46 AM   #9
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Going cheap with the hangers and hardware... Not an option for this project!
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #10
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffaah
Bidding a job where I can throw a rock to the ocean. Despite the location the numbers need to be kept as tight as possible.

Now I know SS joist hangers are ideal to use in this location but I'm wondering if anyone has any real world input with Zmax hardware near the ocean.

I have seen OLD hangers rust through but they were not coated very well. I have also seen other contractors use standard Zmax hangers by the ocean.....but wondered how they hold up.
Jeff,

When we work on a project we always note base cost, then site specific cost increases,

Simply $xx,***.xx for the deck, list the SS hardware as+ $***.xx as a line item adding cost as site specific, then optional package costs upgrades or features and then the total.

This allows for base cost comparison and also allows you to add explanation as to why these additional cost items are needed.

You know you need them, you just need to show the client they need to spend it now not threes more later.

When you get to these types of things price shoppers never buy quality just flash and cake decorations, thus they love to flush money down the drain for short sighted penny wise pound foolish items.

I
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:53 AM   #11
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


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Originally Posted by tbz View Post
Jeff,

When we work on a project we always note base cost, then site specific cost increases,

Simply $xx,***.xx for the deck, list the SS hardware as+ $***.xx as a line item adding cost as site specific, then optional package costs upgrades or features and then the total.

This allows for base cost comparison and also allows you to add explanation as to why these additional cost items are needed.

You know you need them, you just need to show the client they need to spend it now not threes more later.

When you get to these types of things price shoppers never buy quality just flash and cake decorations, thus they love to flush money down the drain for short sighted penny wise pound foolish items.

I
That's a great way to present products, Also the onus is on them @ the point of failure. You should get them to sign off.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:55 AM   #12
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


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Originally Posted by BreyerConstruct View Post
Going cheap with the hangers and hardware... Not an option for this project!
I guess and you don't buy anything @ walmart, or do the generic drug thing when @ the pharmacy. When in fact its just health.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:02 AM   #13
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbz View Post
Jeff,

When we work on a project we always note base cost, then site specific cost increases,

Simply $xx,***.xx for the deck, list the SS hardware as+ $***.xx as a line item adding cost as site specific, then optional package costs upgrades or features and then the total.

This allows for base cost comparison and also allows you to add explanation as to why these additional cost items are needed.

You know you need them, you just need to show the client they need to spend it now not threes more later.

When you get to these types of things price shoppers never buy quality just flash and cake decorations, thus they love to flush money down the drain for short sighted penny wise pound foolish items.

I
I normally disagree, however in this case I think it's an excellent idea. I like to give people the whole price for everything they need and want in order to give them the best quality project, but if you know the other guys aren't going to spec SS then do it as an upgrade.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:17 AM   #14
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbz

Jeff,

When we work on a project we always note base cost, then site specific cost increases,

Simply $xx,***.xx for the deck, list the SS hardware as+ $***.xx as a line item adding cost as site specific, then optional package costs upgrades or features and then the total.

This allows for base cost comparison and also allows you to add explanation as to why these additional cost items are needed.

You know you need them, you just need to show the client they need to spend it now not threes more later.

When you get to these types of things price shoppers never buy quality just flash and cake decorations, thus they love to flush money down the drain for short sighted penny wise pound foolish items.

I
Thats a good way to present it. Normally I would add it all up and draw a line.....here's the total. Then I need to remember to explain key line items. Your way sounds better in circumstances like this one.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:57 AM   #15
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF

I normally disagree, however in this case I think it's an excellent idea. I like to give people the whole price for everything they need and want in order to give them the best quality project, but if you know the other guys aren't going to spec SS then do it as an upgrade.
Robert,

As you note we don't do it on every project, but when meeting with a client you can hopefully feel what information detail in price you need to provide.

I simply use the rule if I believe this project is not going to be priced by others correctly I will do the extra effort to highlight recommended site specific options with details as why they should be done as the additional cost.

Its a feel thing, but this post seems like a situation I would use this process in.

It also allows you to show your client the detail long term life of the deck your in visioning.

If they are shopping quality and company with price the more basic information about simply items like bracket material will sit with them.

If they are shopping price, I can tell you if you care about what you build you won't get the project if they are shopping price only and you don,t want it.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #16
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


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If they are shopping price, I can tell you if you care about what you build you won't get the project if they are shopping price only and you don,t want it.
That's a fact! I try to weed out the price shoppers on the phone to save some time.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:31 PM   #17
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


USP has a coating that is supposed to provide the corrosion resistance of SS for the half the cost of SS. I think it's called Gold Coat. I have some samples in my trailer. It's like an epoxy coating.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:01 PM   #18
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by tbz View Post
Jeff,

When we work on a project we always note base cost, then site specific cost increases,

Simply $xx,***.xx for the deck, list the SS hardware as+ $***.xx as a line item adding cost as site specific, then optional package costs upgrades or features and then the total.

This allows for base cost comparison and also allows you to add explanation as to why these additional cost items are needed.

You know you need them, you just need to show the client they need to spend it now not threes more later.

When you get to these types of things price shoppers never buy quality just flash and cake decorations, thus they love to flush money down the drain for short sighted penny wise pound foolish items.

I
I agree this is the best way to propose the job. If the next guy doesn't propose the SS hangers after you explain why they're needed and knowing they are needed it will truly set you apart.
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Old 02-27-2012, 03:47 PM   #19
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


Quote:
Originally Posted by killerdecks

I guess and you don't buy anything @ walmart, or do the generic drug thing when @ the pharmacy. When in fact its just health.
No Killer... Wrong comparison.
I do shop at Walmart when needed, but I wouldn't take a generic drug with a proven side effect that would hurt me or my family. However, we aren't comparing generic items here from generic retailers. We are talking about a specific code requirement that is in place for a very valid reason, and lives are at stake if the connections on a raised deck are compromised.

I'd consult for free to help a homeowner over making this type of compromise..l you'd apparently sell them crap and watch them crash n burn?
Somebody in MI slap him for me.

Matt
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Old 02-27-2012, 04:32 PM   #20
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Re: Zmax Vs. SS Hangers


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Originally Posted by BreyerConstruct View Post
No Killer... Wrong comparison.
I do shop at Walmart when needed, but I wouldn't take a generic drug with a proven side effect that would hurt me or my family. However, we aren't comparing generic items here from generic retailers. We are talking about a specific code requirement that is in place for a very valid reason, and lives are at stake if the connections on a raised deck are compromised.

I'd consult for free to help a homeowner over making this type of compromise..l you'd apparently sell them crap and watch them crash n burn?
Somebody in MI slap him for me.

Matt
He doesn't turn down work and has a lifestyle to maintain.

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