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Pressure Treated Poor Quality

 
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #1
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Pressure Treated Poor Quality


I been using a lot of 6x6 PT lately and I'm noticing it going down hill more and more on each job I use it. These current ones have nothing more than a layer of treatment on the surface.

Bottom is uncut
Next up is 1" in
Top one is 3" in

They have a lifetime warranty but I don't wanna be pulling posts out in 3 years because of their piss poor quality product.

Pressure treated poor quality-imageuploadedbycontractortalk1416673360.592520.jpg
Pressure treated poor quality-imageuploadedbycontractortalk1416673489.130180.jpg
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Old 11-22-2014, 11:49 AM   #2
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


I've been noticing that with our stuff her as well. Not as bad though. I think you still need to seal the ends with green death.

The last few batches of pt I've used has been all over the board as to moisture content. Same pallet has nice dry and light stuff and other stuff so heavy I can barely lift it and it squirts a ton of water out.

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Old 11-22-2014, 12:45 PM   #3
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


The old CCA was 0.4% or ground contact. That's labeled as CA 0.15%, so it's technically ground contact, but even mild checkering is going to be a problem, I think.
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Old 11-22-2014, 04:06 PM   #4
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


They have a little saying when pressed.

" it says ground contact not buried in the ground. "

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Old 11-22-2014, 06:21 PM   #5
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


When I demo decks around here the part of the post in the ground is always in great shape. The area it rots out is right at finished grade. Water sits on the surface and destroys that part of the post.
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Old 11-23-2014, 09:57 AM   #6
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


I use to buy direct from a treatment plant out in Gerogetown. The old man that owned the plant educated me on how the treatment process works. One thing he said is that the heartwood does not take the treatment but, that it did not need to cause the heartwood is very slow to rot.

From the pics it looks like the top pic is of a 6x6 that almost all heartwood so very little green wood, the next one a little more sapwood/green wood & the last one is almost all sapwood & no heartwood thus almost all green.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:12 PM   #7
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


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Originally Posted by deckman22 View Post
I use to buy direct from a treatment plant out in Gerogetown. The old man that owned the plant educated me on how the treatment process works. One thing he said is that the heartwood does not take the treatment but, that it did not need to cause the heartwood is very slow to rot.

From the pics it looks like the top pic is of a 6x6 that almost all heartwood so very little green wood, the next one a little more sapwood/green wood & the last one is almost all sapwood & no heartwood thus almost all green.
I took it that all pictures were the same post.

But reading again, maybe not.
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Old 11-23-2014, 12:31 PM   #8
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


not to knock on the big box cause i give them pleny of money but for starters i think lowes severe weather PT lumber is terrible looking that dark green is to much imo. Not a real difference in price between lowes crap and yellawood that most lumber yards in this part carry. that stuff is only ground contact...and the reason why post shoes are a requirement in these parts
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Old 11-23-2014, 01:33 PM   #9
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


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Originally Posted by Mark122 View Post
not to knock on the big box cause i give them pleny of money but for starters i think lowes severe weather PT lumber is terrible looking that dark green is to much imo. Not a real difference in price between lowes crap and yellawood that most lumber yards in this part carry. that stuff is only ground contact...and the reason why post shoes are a requirement in these parts
I can't get .40acq from the big box. The only thing the bog box has as ground contact is 4x and 6x (here). However it's the very minimum amount of chemicals. Not to mention it's all hem Fir. My lumberyard PT is Doug Fir.
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:03 AM   #10
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


Where are you buying your lumber? You might need to ditch them. I used to work for a large framing company that also owned a series of lumber yards. I know how they did their purchasing, they looked at prices. Always had crappy lumber so I know to avoid them.

I'd call the lumber yard and ask who their distributer is for that treated wood. Then call a few more lumber yards and ask if they get it somewheres different. There's probably a distributer out there sending out crappy wood for cheap. A little research and you should be able to find some better material.
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:37 AM   #11
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


I put some landscape timber in at a customers barley 3 yrs ago............It's totally rotted out and falling apart. Home Depot's brand.

I have some at my house going on 15 yrs and in better shape than that crap.
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:29 PM   #12
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


were seeing quite a bit of this locally also.. 6 weeks ago we had a client complain and request that the new 6x6 fence posts and 4x4 deck rail posts be replace do to minor checking.. she stated they were unacceptable.. we told her would could replace some handrail posts.. but hte fence posts are in concrete.. the fence posts were left as is
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Old 11-29-2014, 09:35 PM   #13
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


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Originally Posted by Big Shoe View Post
I put some landscape timber in at a customers barley 3 yrs ago............It's totally rotted out and falling apart. Home Depot's brand.

I have some at my house going on 15 yrs and in better shape than that crap.
Or home Depot has hem fir .15 pcf acq. (Garbage!)

I only use Doug Fir. .40 pcf. Acq. Our PT is top notch that I'm getting here. I'm sure it's because it's Doug Fir.
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:28 AM   #14
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Or home Depot has hem fir .15 pcf acq. (Garbage!)

I only use Doug Fir. .40 pcf. Acq. Our PT is top notch that I'm getting here. I'm sure it's because it's Doug Fir.
The treatment actually has a much harder time penetrating Douglas Fir, that's why it's incised, so I'm not sure I'd say it's all that great. (I knew a guy who worked for the Forestry Department who special ordered treated SYP for just that reason.)

Here's some Ground-Contact PT DF 4x6 from Truitt and White
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:54 AM   #15
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The treatment actually has a much harder time penetrating Douglas Fir, that's why it's incised, so I'm not sure I'd say it's all that great. (I knew a guy who worked for the Forestry Department who special ordered treated SYP for just that reason.)

Here's some Ground-Contact PT DF 4x6 from Truitt and White
This is why I treat the ends with Coppergreen. Doug Fir is stronger then hem fir and better for deck framing. However we only get about 4" of rain a year here with zero humidity, zero freeze and zero snow. So above ground moisture is really a non issue here. Doug Fir is also better naturally at resisting decay then hem fir.
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Old 11-30-2014, 02:57 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by kfc510 View Post
The treatment actually has a much harder time penetrating Douglas Fir, that's why it's incised, so I'm not sure I'd say it's all that great. (I knew a guy who worked for the Forestry Department who special ordered treated SYP for just that reason.)

Here's some Ground-Contact PT DF 4x6 from Truitt and White
All I can say is our doug Fir pt penetrates much better then that picture. I would easily say 75% gets penetrated.

I'll get some pictures

Last edited by Calidecks; 11-30-2014 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 11-30-2014, 03:20 AM   #17
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


This is a doug fir .40 acq that's been buried in the mud for 7 or 8 years under my AC condenser. It was always wet from the irrigation system in my yard. It was buried with just about 1 inch exposed out of the ground. Considering nothing I ever build has the material buried in the mud and these pieces are only deteriorated roughly on the edges after 8 years, I am very confident an above grade deck will easily get 20-30 years, or more.

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Old 11-30-2014, 03:24 AM   #18
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


...
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Old 11-30-2014, 10:49 AM   #19
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
This is why I treat the ends with Coppergreen. Doug Fir is stronger then hem fir and better for deck framing. However we only get about 4" of rain a year here with zero humidity, zero freeze and zero snow. So above ground moisture is really a non issue here. Doug Fir is also better naturally at resisting decay then hem fir.
Yeah, I agree DF has some natural decay resistance, and as an overall material it is great and we usually get nice stock out here on the west coast. (I helped build a house in Santa Fe a while back and was appalled by the S/P/F framing stock available there.)

But it doesn't like to absorb the PT, that's why it has to be incised.

Oh, +1 on treating all cut ends, obviously. Drilled holes, etc. too.

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Old 11-30-2014, 11:13 AM   #20
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Re: Pressure Treated Poor Quality


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
This is a doug fir .40 acq that's been buried in the mud for 7 or 8 years under my AC condenser. It was always wet from the irrigation system in my yard. It was buried with just about 1 inch exposed out of the ground...

...Considering nothing I ever build has the material buried in the mud and these pieces are only deteriorated roughly on the edges after 8 years, I am very confident an above grade deck will easily get 20-30 years, or more.
I've seen buried .40 ACQ DF start decaying after 7-8 years up here.

Like you, I don't like to bury the stuff, but sometimes it happens (retaining walls, etc.)

Decks and fences all get column bases set up off grade on piers.

I used to worry about the moment loads on the fences but I've never had a problem with the bases even though Simpson won't give any moment rating for them. To me rot is the bigger worry, so I take the liability for an off-book usage over the known problem of rot.

With decks the moment load is resolved in other ways, of course, so that's a non-issue.

Here's a fence with CB 44's for bases. Redwood, but same issue.
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