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Pergola Design

 
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Old 05-12-2017, 12:20 PM   #1
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Pergola Design


Hi, I just joined the forum as I'm looking for some help on a project in my own house. I work for a big construction company and am planning on building an attached pergola as my back terrace with the help of one of our superintendents.

The rear of the house is an L shape. It is the main house and then an addition in the back built in the 50s with a flat roof. There is a patio in between this L. The plan is to build a 26x15 pergola with one of the long sides being attached to the flat roof using skylift risers and the other being held by 4 6x6 cedar posts. There would be two 3x10 beams, one on the skylift risers over the roof and one on the 4 posts. The tops of the posts would be notched with the beam going through and resting on them. 3x6 rafters would be added every 2 ft (they would span about 11 or 12 ft). The pergola will be sloped with the roof part being highest and the part over the posts about a foot lower (I will be adding clear plexi roofing)

My questions are as follows:

1. Thoughts on skylift system (I'd rather not attach through th roof but can't think of any other way to do it as the roof is low and I want to give the pergola some height).

2. Will I need to add knee bracing. My plan is to create concrete footers and then attach the posts with custom made brackets that will be embedded in the concrete (is there an off th shelf bracket I can use for this). I really prefer not to add th bracing and can attach one of the posts to the house itself.

Any other suggestions or comments. I have attached some very bad sketches and pictures of the current patio (there is an aluminum porch)

Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:32 PM   #2
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Re: Pergola Design


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrm2083 View Post
...my questions are as follows:

1. Thoughts on skylift system (i'd rather not attach through th roof but can't think of any other way to do it as the roof is low and i want to give the pergola some height).

cool system. Many times just make my own.

2. Will i need to add knee bracing.

likeky, but maybe not with the post attached to house.
For wind load you may want to knee brace.


my plan is to create concrete footers and then attach the posts with custom made brackets that will be embedded in the concrete (is there an off th shelf bracket i can use for this). I really prefer not to add th bracing and can attach one of the posts to the house itself.

How is it you know about skylift and not simpson?
Simpson has off the shelf brackets. Cb66, probably available in SS.


Any other suggestions or comments. I have attached some very bad sketches and pictures of the current patio (there is an aluminum porch)

thanks!
cb66
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Old 05-12-2017, 03:34 PM   #3
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Re: Pergola Design


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrm2083 View Post
Hi, I just joined the forum as I'm looking for some help on a project in my own house. I work for a big construction company and am planning on building an attached pergola as my back terrace with the help of one of our superintendents.

The rear of the house is an L shape. It is the main house and then an addition in the back built in the 50s with a flat roof. There is a patio in between this L. The plan is to build a 26x15 pergola with one of the long sides being attached to the flat roof using skylift risers and the other being held by 4 6x6 cedar posts. There would be two 3x10 beams, one on the skylift risers over the roof and one on the 4 posts. The tops of the posts would be notched with the beam going through and resting on them. 3x6 rafters would be added every 2 ft (they would span about 11 or 12 ft). The pergola will be sloped with the roof part being highest and the part over the posts about a foot lower (I will be adding clear plexi roofing)

My questions are as follows:

1. Thoughts on skylift system (I'd rather not attach through th roof but can't think of any other way to do it as the roof is low and I want to give the pergola some height).

2. Will I need to add knee bracing. My plan is to create concrete footers and then attach the posts with custom made brackets that will be embedded in the concrete (is there an off th shelf bracket I can use for this). I really prefer not to add th bracing and can attach one of the posts to the house itself.

Any other suggestions or comments. I have attached some very bad sketches and pictures of the current patio (there is an aluminum porch)

Thanks!
No sketches!
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:54 PM   #4
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Re: Pergola Design


I think it should be done with the upmost attention to detail.

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Old 05-13-2017, 08:21 AM   #5
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Re: Pergola Design


If you're going to use cb66's you'll need sway braces, overpriced junk imo.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:22 AM   #6
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Re: Pergola Design


Thanks for the quick responses! I thought that I had attached the sketches. I was actually working on a 3d model that I just finished so I am attaching that here instead.

Griz, I am aware of the CB66s but the guy who is helping me out mentioned, just as deskman22 did, that they aren't very sturdy.

As you guys can see in the pictures, my plan is to attach the pergola to the house via the sky lift system as well as attaching one of the posts to the wall.

I really want to avoid bracing if possible. Any ideas on how to do so?

Deckman22, is there an off the shelf bracket that you recommend? If going custom, what would you guys suggest to make it really sturdy?

Thanks again for all of the help.
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Old 05-13-2017, 12:46 PM   #7
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Re: Pergola Design


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrm2083 View Post
Thanks for the quick responses! I thought that I had attached the sketches. I was actually working on a 3d model that I just finished so I am attaching that here instead.

Griz, I am aware of the CB66s but the guy who is helping me out mentioned, just as deskman22 did, that they aren't very sturdy.

As you guys can see in the pictures, my plan is to attach the pergola to the house via the sky lift system as well as attaching one of the posts to the wall.

I really want to avoid bracing if possible. Any ideas on how to do so?

Deckman22, is there an off the shelf bracket that you recommend? If going custom, what would you guys suggest to make it really sturdy?

Thanks again for all of the help.
Umm, the CB66s are very sturdy for what they do. Probably sturdy enough for your project.
What they are not is a means of obtaining shear/racking value, that is not what they are used for. For racking, use a knee brace system that is min. 24" x 24".
People, even pros often get that wrong, as with ECQs and the like or other post caps, they do not provide shear value.

Andy.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:36 PM   #8
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Re: Pergola Design


Using custom 1/2'' steel U brackets there would be no need to attach to the house. No need for any sway bracing either. Al and I both use them.

Any welding shop can fabricate them. Welded on both sides , torch out the holes no need to drill. Lag through the sides use 1/2 '' expanding anchors to connect to the Piers.

Pretty simple plan really.

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Old 05-13-2017, 02:37 PM   #9
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Re: Pergola Design


Thanks John. How tall would you make the brackets? Also, would you make them with rebar and embed them into the concrete?
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:29 PM   #10
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Re: Pergola Design


Depending on how high your project is going to be will dictate size of brackets. With my regular 9' height I have them made 16 '' tall.

There is no rebar involved in the bracket. Rebar goes in the Creet. 99 % of the time my posts are installed on the pier not in them. Installation done with 1/2 '' expanding anchors .

Installed correctly there is very little sway, uplift has been solved all together. The brackets most often are trimmed out making for a good look.

J.
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Old 05-14-2017, 10:52 AM   #11
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Re: Pergola Design


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrm2083 View Post
Thanks John. How tall would you make the brackets? Also, would you make them with rebar and embed them into the concrete?
First ones I had made used j-bolts on the bottom and we embedded them in the concrete right after the pour. That experience told me it would be best to use expansion bolts as John mentioned due to the j-bolt placement could be right where some steel in the footing is causing problems.

The guy we've been using drills out the holes, primes and paints them black for a nice looking finish without covering them up although I've done that on several occasions usually with partial stone columns. The sleeves are 16-18" tall with two holes for thru-bolts. No sway at all.

I use the same guy for making roof brackets like you intend on using, left up the shingle and lag them to the rafter above the wall line, apply roofing cement.....done. I like using these for several reasons. First, no post/beam needed near the house, not attached to the overhang which isn't designed to carry the extra load in most cases, no flashing or rot issues.

My engineer has ok'd their use on permitted projects no problemo.
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:27 PM   #12
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Re: Pergola Design


If a person was hesitant using the expanding anchors , although they hold like crazy , the Hilti two part epoxy / glav threaded rod combo makes for an unquestionable bond.

I do believe they could build bridges with that stuff !!!

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Old 05-15-2017, 07:04 AM   #13
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Re: Pergola Design


Thanks guys this is really helping. I am planning on leaving them exposed and having them painted black as you described.

Where do you attach the anchors for th best look/strength. For example, do you have them hidden under the post or do you have them on the sides like these from sturdi-wall. https://www.permacolumn.com/drill-set-models

Would you recommend lag screws into the wood columns or through bolts from one side to the other?
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:18 AM   #14
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Re: Pergola Design


I don't have them make those flanges. Fasten through the inside of U.

Through bolt, lags, 220/ 221 what ever it takes.

J.
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Old 05-15-2017, 07:28 AM   #15
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Re: Pergola Design


For those who didn't see the movie.

Google that 220 thing.

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Old 05-18-2017, 11:53 PM   #16
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Re: Pergola Design


Simpson has come out with these moment post bases, not sure how high they're rated but might work...............

The new patent-pending Simpson Strong-Tie® MPBZ is the first post base specifically designed to provide moment resistance for columns or posts. An innovative overlapping sleeve design encapsulates the post, helping to resist rotation around its base. It is available for 4x4 and 6x6 posts. The MPBZ is ideal for outdoor structures, such as carports, fences and decks. Built-in standoff tabs provide the required 1" standoff to resist decay of the post while eliminating multiple parts and assembly. Additionally, the MPBZ is available in ZMAX® as the standard finish to meet exposure conditions in many environments.
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:08 AM   #17
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Re: Pergola Design


Here are few places you can buy various pergola brackets. A nearby timber pergola/pavillion maker uses the Ozco or pergola knife plates for the post bases.
https://www.bisonbuilt.com/497-pergola_brackets
https://www.ozcobp.com/51709--8x8-pb-iw-.html
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:49 PM   #18
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Re: Pergola Design


never understood pergola concept. doesn't keep sun off you, doesn't keep rain off you. to me looks like an unfinished all season room
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:58 PM   #19
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Re: Pergola Design


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never understood pergola concept. doesn't keep sun off you, doesn't keep rain off you. to me looks like an unfinished all season room
Some people can't afford an all season room or have other complications. Many people around here don't want darkness in the house (blocking the windows) during the colder winter months. You don't need a building permit for a pergola if it is free standing. You can also add various attachments for shade, rain and wind. House wall attached retractable awnings have to be retracted if it gets too windy. Retractable awnings on a pergola can take medium and high winds.
Although, I see your point on some of the designs.
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Pergola design-tc-shade-6.jpg   Pergola design-hofbauer-pergola-awning-13may2011-005-custom-.jpg   Pergola design-poly-shade-system.jpg   Pergola design-pergola-max-shade-002a-.jpg  
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:50 PM   #20
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Re: Pergola Design


Altogether nice work my Man.

Great site too.

JonMon

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