Keep Ledger? - Decks & Fencing - Contractor Talk

Keep Ledger?

 
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:32 AM   #1
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Keep Ledger?


I'm bidding on a resurfacing job and wanted to reach out to see what you'd do here. Railing and boards will be replaced, along with new rim joists. Deck is 17 years old. For the most part, well built for its time: it was permitted, 2x12 beams, 2x10 joists, 2 carriage bolts in post-beam connection, W shaped carriage bolts for ledger, 4x6 posts. Digging out 8" of earth around all of the posts the wood was solid. My biggest concern is that the deck is ledgered through brick and to a cantilevered portion of the home (we do have access inside unfinished basement), which is against code here, and it wasn't flashed. This municipality will Grandfather the deck in since it was permitted. I figure they're still going to want to see flashing added, and (3) of those 18" threaded steel rods.

But what about that space behind the ledger. I have no xray vision to know if there's rot behind there. If I were to replace the ledger I'd have to (probably) detach the deck and add posts in thru their patio for a new beam.

Would you just proceed with adding flashing and the 18" threaded steel rods, ask the building department to just replace the ledger board, or add posts/beam?

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:17 AM   #2
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Re: Keep Ledger?


Why would you leave and subject the work you're going to do to a 17-year old ledger?

If it was for your Mom how would you approach it?

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Old 04-16-2019, 10:00 AM   #3
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Re: Keep Ledger?


i might be missing something .a lot of info is not here .why can you not tell if ledger is solid ,drill a hole in and check if you need to .are you replacing joist . are you going to flash top of joist . about that ledger -how well is it flashed .till you pull the decking you maynot know . is this ledger directly fastened to the brick ,has this damaged the back side .brick like concrete holds moisture .
if you have second thoughts -stop and rethink .it sucks when it bites you later .
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Old 04-16-2019, 10:27 AM   #4
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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i might be missing something .a lot of info is not here .why can you not tell if ledger is solid ,drill a hole in and check if you need to .are you replacing joist . are you going to flash top of joist . about that ledger -how well is it flashed .till you pull the decking you maynot know . is this ledger directly fastened to the brick ,has this damaged the back side .brick like concrete holds moisture .
if you have second thoughts -stop and rethink .it sucks when it bites you later .
The existing deck's ledger is not flashed, not that I can tell. I'll be honest, I've never drilled a hole in to a ledger to check if it's rotted - would that truly paint a picture of the entire ledger's rot status though? Joists will be staying, will be adding waterproofing tape on top. Plan is to add proper flashing above the ledger. The ledger is currently carriage bolted from inside the house through the ledger.

The thing is, I just don't know if it's rotting. Removing ledger and re-ledgering would be more expensive than just adding the posts. Or maybe we wait for the new Simpson BVLZ, to ledger through brick in a code-approved way. Though again, this doesn't tell me if the 17 year old ledger that wasn't flashed is rotting or not.

Here's my best approach, would like your honest thoughts: Pull boards. If the ledger was flashed (and I just can't see it currently), good to go as-is. If the ledger is not flashed, add a beam & posts under the deck, keeping the ledger as-is.
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:23 PM   #5
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Re: Keep Ledger?


Here's my best approach, would like your honest thoughts: Pull boards. If the ledger was flashed (and I just can't see it currently), good to go as-is. If the ledger is not flashed, add a beam & posts under the deck, keeping the ledger as-is.[/QUOTE]

sounds like a good approach .
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Old 04-16-2019, 04:58 PM   #6
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Re: Keep Ledger?


I wouldn't reskin a 17 year old deck. I definitely wouldn't reskin a deck that had tall 4x posts with that "beam" system and no lateral bracing.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:59 PM   #7
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Re: Keep Ledger?


And half the deck load is carried on the carriage bolts at the beam connections. That's a big no no.

And I agree wholeheartedly with everything Ethan said.


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Old 04-16-2019, 09:16 PM   #8
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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I wouldn't reskin a 17 year old deck. I definitely wouldn't reskin a deck that had tall 4x posts with that "beam" system and no lateral bracing.
This deck aside, is the age of the deck a black-and-white indicator to resurface or not? Many of my leads are "I have an existing deck, the frame is fine, just replacing boards". Is there an age of deck you would or wouldn't do? What if a 15 year old deck looks great, still no?

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:25 PM   #9
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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Originally Posted by pathbuilder View Post
This deck aside, is the age of the deck a black-and-white indicator to resurface or not? Many of my leads are "I have an existing deck, the frame is fine, just replacing boards". Is there an age of deck you would or wouldn't do? What if a 15 year old deck looks great, still no?

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Would be no for me, the only 15 yr old work I want to own is my own
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:29 PM   #10
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Re: Keep Ledger?


I just re-decked pt from 1992. Framing was like in a museum. Perfect. Removed rails and other decking that's actually pretty good too. Reason being it maybe get an HR of sun per day. And older lumber and whatever else they out in it to preserve it. I couldn't believe it. Of course I added a blocking reenforced few things here and there changed/ added few hangers and sds. And replaced the stair case with proper rise/ run. Do your due diligence.

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:34 PM   #11
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Re: Keep Ledger?


What happens when the beams start splitting here where the bolt holes are?


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Old 04-16-2019, 09:43 PM   #12
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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What happens when the beams start splitting here where the bolt holes are?


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Again due diligence. That's clearly needs to updated. But also keep in mind that that it's been that way for how long? In this case I would swap out including post / footings. I look at this. A new it updated deck becomes like a new puppy everyone wants to play on it. Which means it will get more action and attention then before so you have to prepare for the more.

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Old 04-16-2019, 09:43 PM   #13
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Re: Keep Ledger?


Would that meet current code? Safety is a good motivator.

I once had a potential deck job like that, which was pulling away from the ledger. I could not sufficiently persuade them on the catastrophic danger (not that it's what you have there).

That's a lame beam.
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:45 PM   #14
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Re: Keep Ledger?


The last person to touch it usually owns what happens to it... what exactly are you saving?
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Old 04-16-2019, 09:50 PM   #15
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Re: Keep Ledger?


Putting new wet decking on old beams will need to be considered as well. If not by you by their insurances attorneys.


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Old 04-16-2019, 09:56 PM   #16
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Re: Keep Ledger?


This thread is dead already.... moving on

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Old 04-16-2019, 10:06 PM   #17
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Re: Keep Ledger?


I hate the "grandfathered in" rule. If you're going to do new work to it, they should make it be up to code. If you can't build the frame exactly as it sits right now, IMO you should have to tear it down and build it to code.

I usually point out every flaw in the existing structure to try to persuade the homeowner in going with new framing as well. Because I've NEVER met a deck that just goes smoothly while resurfacing, I usually charge more than I would to just put decking on something I built. I usually add an option at the bottom of the proposal with the price of the extra tear down (usually not much extra after decking and railing demo are already included in the bid), and the framing. Again, because I am already pricing my resurfacing at a premium, the extra cost doesn't look quite as high as I normal charge (although it works out the same in the numbers).

Most of the time I get people to either add on the framing after highly suggesting it in the sales meeting, or they find someone else cheaper to resurface it. I hate trying to deck over someone else's shoddy work. It takes twice as long to make it look good. Sell sell sell them on a complete job. Much easier on you and your crew.
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Old 04-16-2019, 11:02 PM   #18
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Re: Keep Ledger?


Quote:
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What happens when the beams start splitting here where the bolt holes are?


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Think those metal brackets designed for this purpose do any good?

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Old Yesterday, 01:35 AM   #19
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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Think those metal brackets designed for this purpose do any good?

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They may help, but that's a hell of a load to be putting in any fasteners. I like to see full bearing support.



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Old Yesterday, 05:23 AM   #20
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Re: Keep Ledger?


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Think those metal brackets designed for this purpose do any good?

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There for retro fit. Good idea

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