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Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost

 
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:53 AM   #21
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Deckman,
I'll do you one better. shoot me an email with your name and address, and I'll get samples out in UPS today for you.

-Ryan
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Originally Posted by deckman22 View Post
Ryan from Starborn,

Send a sample of your pro plug system down to the boys at Austin Wholesale, I'd like to see that in person.

Your company does make good products, the Headcoats/smartbits are great & the best way to install ipe imo.

And Bob from efloor, please do not plug ebtys here, we all know they are the product that gave clip systems a bad name cause they do not work worth a darn on ipe, at least here in texas.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:02 AM   #22
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Thanks Ryan, check your pm box.
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:36 PM   #23
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Didnt get your private message for some reason! Can you shoot me an email with your address?
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:23 PM   #24
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starborn_Ind
Guys,
A colleague of mine came across this post, and thought that I should take a look at it. After reading all of the posts, I felt that I should respond to some of these comments. Before I begin, in the interest of full disclosure, I am the Deck Products Specialist for Starborn Industries, which is the manufacturer of Headcote stainless steel screws as well as the Pro Plug System for hardwoods.

It seems to me that the real question being debated here is "clips vs. plugs" as both a function of time and performance. My stance has always been that top-down fastening is the best way to secure ANY deck, especially hardwoods. It provides a much better holding power than a clip. In fact, if you call and talk to a deck specialist at an importer of hardwoods, they almost all will agree with that statement. Further, if you ever need to make a repair to a deck further down the road, top down fastening is much more time efficient because with most clipping systems, if a board needs repair in the middle of the deck, you have to remove all the deck boards before or after it in order to make the repair.
I disagree completely, there are half a dozen different ways to remove AND replace decking that is clipped in without "taking them all out" sometimes it can be done with zero impact to surrounding boards.
This myth has been spread around so much and it's false. I get a little tired of it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:41 PM   #25
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertCDF

I disagree completely, there are half a dozen different ways to remove AND replace decking that is clipped in without "taking them all out" sometimes it can be done with zero impact to surrounding boards.
This myth has been spread around so much and it's false. I get a little tired of it.
That myth along with many others plague the decking industry with misinformation.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:39 PM   #26
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Misinformation does more to hurt our industry than anything else, when half the people don't know what their talking about go around using blanket statements instead of educating themselves it makes us all look bad. Who does the homeowner believe? When there is disagreement they usually favor the more negative statement, because it's easier to believe it CAN'T be done than to believe it can be done.

If you've been in this trade for 5 or more years and cannot figure out how to remove and replace the deck board fastened with clips AND keep the HFS look on the replacement board then I think you need to do something else. As I said before there are at least a half dozen ways to do this depending upon the style of clip and decking used.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:51 PM   #27
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Yea and there a lot of negative posters on this site. Blanket statements based on single exposures. More BS parlayed around than @ the horse barn.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:41 PM   #28
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


You ride horses there killer ? or is that a mith your spreading around.

Ok Rob. I wont ask for half a dozen ways to get a cliped board out and replaced without anyone knowing the differance.


How about three of them ? Keep it simple I am just a country boy with only one skiney tennesse walker to my name.

J.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:02 PM   #29
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Trade secrets Jonmon, I can't tell you all those







Actually I am running out the door to get dinner for my wife, being that it's her day I probably wont be back on here the rest of the night, but I promise I will post up a few.
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:10 PM   #30
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Go Get Em Rob !!

" Romance is in the moment, Love is in the Eyes."


JonMon's paperback that sold 15 copies. I bought 5 of them.

J.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:25 PM   #31
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Ok, the wife is giving the kids a quick bath so I got a few minutes...

Getting the board out is the easy part and is the same for all systems. Rip down the length of the board about 1" from each side so you can lift the center of the board out, then just pull each 1" side out of the clips. Now you have the board completely out and the clips are STILL in place on the other boards (this is EB-TY, invisfast biscuit, Correct Deck style clips)

Now you have a few options to go forward depending upon the style of clip, Using the above example (EB-TY, invisifast biscuit, Correct Deck clips) you can cut out a portion of the groove on the bottom of the new board at each clip location and drop it in over the clips and attach from below with toe screws, L brackets, Deckmaster, etc. This style can work with almost any deck board and fastening system, including HID-fast.

Another option using the same clips is to loosen them and pull them all out, drop the board in most of the way EX: if you have a 20' board between 2 boarder pieces have 1' hanging over onto the boarder, at this point you should be able to slide all the clips you need into the grooves, push the board in the rest of the way and slide your clips to the joists and screw them on home.

Another option is to remove all the clips and on one end of the board (on the bottom) cut out a section of the groove drop the board in place, go below and cut out a section on the remaining boards, now you can slide the clips into the groove and move them to each joist, go back up top and drive them on in.

Hope that works for you guys.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #32
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


If you clip off the tips of your hfs's, you can also go for the camo system for the reinstall.
-Matt
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:43 PM   #33
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


OK, I'm gonna go there........... I wish that there were more of the HFS companies that made a clip similar to the Trex universal clip.... I'm not a huge fan of their clip because of the gap it leaves. But it sure
is damn easy to remove and replace with it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:47 PM   #34
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


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If you clip off the tips of your hfs's, you can also go for the camo system for the reinstall.
-Matt
Shhhh........you & Rob are giving away the answers to the master deck builder test.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:38 AM   #35
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


universal clip,
http://www.thedeckbarn.com/products.aspx?cat=8&sub=2
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:41 AM   #36
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


picture from last post
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Old 02-15-2012, 06:59 AM   #37
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Thanks Rob !!!

I just hope I never have to do that.


J.
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Old 02-15-2012, 09:26 AM   #38
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcquin View Post
OK, I'm gonna go there........... I wish that there were more of the HFS companies that made a clip similar to the Trex universal clip.... I'm not a huge fan of their clip because of the gap it leaves. But it sure
is damn easy to remove and replace with it.
Look at the Invisifast biscuit clip, I use this one all the time because the guy will sell them in bulk with a self tapping screw for steel frames. http://invisifast.com/biscuit.php
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Old 02-15-2012, 02:12 PM   #39
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Thanks Robert. I'll look into those.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:03 AM   #40
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Re: Ipe: Clips V. Plugging Cost


Quote:
Originally Posted by Starborn_Ind View Post
Guys,
A colleague of mine came across this post, and thought that I should take a look at it. After reading all of the posts, I felt that I should respond to some of these comments. Before I begin, in the interest of full disclosure, I am the Deck Products Specialist for Starborn Industries, which is the manufacturer of Headcote stainless steel screws as well as the Pro Plug System for hardwoods.

It seems to me that the real question being debated here is “clips vs. plugs” as both a function of time and performance. My stance has always been that top-down fastening is the best way to secure ANY deck, especially hardwoods. It provides a much better holding power than a clip. In fact, if you call and talk to a deck specialist at an importer of hardwoods, they almost all will agree with that statement. Further, if you ever need to make a repair to a deck further down the road, top down fastening is much more time efficient because with most clipping systems, if a board needs repair in the middle of the deck, you have to remove all the deck boards before or after it in order to make the repair.

So in my opinion, you have two options:
1) Face Fastening with a stainless steel screw
2) Plugging the deck
With regards to plugging, it generally has been thought of as a time consuming process because you have to cut the plug, counterbore a hole, countersink that hole, put in a screw, roll that plug in glue, insert the plug, chisel off the top of that plug, etc. Because of this, many people have avoided it, and I cant blame them.
Starborn Industries has come out with the Pro Plug System for Wood (available in most hardwood species), which is a plugging system targeted at cutting the time required to plug a deck by more than half while providing a fantastic finish and maximum holding power.

The system consists of:
The Pro Plug Tool which counterbores & countersinks in one step.
The Pro Plug Fasteners which have a head angle designed to perfectly match the angle of the countersink to provide maximum holding power. The screws are 8 x 2-1/2” stainless steel.
The Pro Plug Glue Nozzle which is our patented glue nozzle that fits on most exterior PVA glue bottles such as Tightbond III and Elmers Wood Glue Max. Instead of having to take that plug and roll it in glue, this nozzle dispenses glue out its side to coat the sidewalls of the hole with glue (This is important because the bond between the sides of the plug hole and the plug provides all the holding power. Any glue on the bottom provides little to no holding power).
The Pro Plug Plugs which have a chamfer at the bottom for easy insertion. Because the plugs were designed with the hole in mind, it will always be a perfect fit. You will never have to chisel off the tops of the plugs.

A video demo is available at: http://www.starbornindustries.com/video-pro-plug

If any of you have any questions about Starborn products, or general inquiries about fastening a deck (even if it isn’t our products) feel free to contact me directly.

Ryan Unick
Deck Products Specialist
Starborn Industries
P: 732-381-9800
www.starbornindustries.com
www.facebook.com/starbornindustries
This is the system I used on my 1x6 IPE deck (720 sq ft) and it's gorgeous....you will burn up the countersink bit every 500 or so cuts. You'll also break a few bits, but no big deal.

A good system but there are some issues with this manufacturer. They are, the countersink will only cut 450-500 holes, the ipe simply eats 'em up. Meaning if you purchase the 1050 piece kit (for 350 sq ft of deck) you'll need one and maybe 2 more countersink tools. And should you have to replace those plugs (go ahead, ask me) the plugs themselves can only be purchased in bags of 100, at $23 per bag. No discounts for 1000, or 1500 plugs.

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Last edited by stan v; 05-15-2013 at 02:37 PM. Reason: shrinking ipe
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