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Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage

 
 
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:23 PM  
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Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


I posted a question about decking and mosquitoes a few months back. Now we've moved on to insulating the floor of the porch for some possible winter use. I don't want to go rubber membrane and floating deck due to cost. I'm trying to come up with good insulation, good air tightness, and some way to drain the deck in warmer weather when rain comes through the screens. Here is what I've come up with. Frame conventionally. Put borate treated EPS foam in between the joists 4" minimum. T&G decking on the joists. Route in round floor drains around the exterior of the deck for rain to be swept/squeegeed into. Pipe the drains into PVC and run the line into the gutter/foundation drain. Problems with this seem to be- possibly too much standing water on the T&G. Can't use spray foam to air seal the EPS under the decking because any water that gets by the T&G needs to be able to seep out through the foam. Also, I'm not sure the floor drains are even necessary. Most of the water could probably be squeegeed out the door quicker than into a few 6" drains. Any thoughts or different ideas all together? thanks, Nick.
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Old 03-11-2010, 07:52 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


Decking requires cross ventalation,air moving under the deck. This is even more important using South American lumber.

Do not install T&G decking outside like you were laying down an inside floor. J.

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Old 03-11-2010, 08:26 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


Just an idea........http://www.dekdrain.com
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:46 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


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Originally Posted by tcleve4911 View Post
Just an idea........http://www.dekdrain.com
I think in theory that would work,but I'd be concerned about having enough ventilation to completely dry up any moisture that found its way into it.

I really think a decision has to be made at this point as to this is going to get winter use and design it accordingly.

Winter use would probably mean installing glass/plexi inserts for comfort.
So,I'd build a short wall along the perimeter which would help keep almost all the rain out.Then the inserts would be shorter and easily handled.Having wide overhangs on all sides will add to the protection.

IMHO
The more complicated this gets built,the better chances for some sort of problem down the line.

Here's a pic of my own screened porch.
Even without the knee walls,a minimal amount of rain gets in.

I wrapped the overhang around the gable ends to help keep the rain out.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:04 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


It will have good overhangs. 1x12 sofit. Building a solid section on the bottom is out. Takes too much away from the open feel of the porch. It will have double pane glass inserts in the winter. Basically looking at 3 panels of glass. the bottom panel will be insulated solid panel in the winter, but screen in the summer.

"Decking requires cross ventalation,air moving under the deck. This is even more important using South American lumber."

I've seen alot of T&G decking outside that holds up fine. the deck wouldn't have ply subfloor like an interior floor. But air flow would be greatly restricted underneath due to the foam in between the joists. You think a setup like that would cause the decking/framing to fail prematurely? Interesting. I agree, air flow would be way better, but if you have air flow then you have cold air in the winter which would sort of render winter use pointless. Maybe I should tell them no insulation too much headache get it to work.
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:26 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


Quote:
It will have good overhangs. 1x12 sofit. Building a solid section on the bottom is out. Takes too much away from the open feel of the porch. It will have double pane glass inserts in the winter. Basically looking at 3 panels of glass. the bottom panel will be insulated solid panel in the winter, but screen in the summer.
Is there a way you could leave the bottom glass panel in year round?
You'd still have that open feeling.
Since its going to have to be tempered glass for code requirements,you could use regular glass for the upper sections.
Code may also require some sort of railings.
I was toying around with making mine usable in the winter and am anxious to see how you finish this.

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Old 03-11-2010, 06:05 PM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


Actually the plan for the bottom panel in the winter is to make it solid so no tempered glass or glass at all. But screen it in the summer. Deck meets requirements off the ground for no railing.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:18 PM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


could the foam be pitched between the joist to drain to a gutter detail,or maybe route incline grooves
i don't know just tossin ideas
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:36 PM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


why not fiberglass like they do for all those balconies down the jersey shore?
http://www.fiberdex.com/
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Old 03-11-2010, 09:42 PM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


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could the foam be pitched between the joist to drain to a gutter detail,or maybe route incline grooves
i don't know just tossin ideas
Tom, I think the detail of getting all the joist spaces to drain is too much of a pain in the ass. The drain would have to be piped so as not to have air leaks and get outside air in. Seems that the main concern now is insulating cuts off the air flow to the underside of the deck and if the air flow is cut off then it could increase the possibility of rot/mold in the framing and the decking.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:52 PM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


yea as i was typing i was thinking the idea wouldn't fly,its like you need a ''drainable'' insulation,or a way to guaranty water doesn't get to the ins
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Old 03-12-2010, 08:55 AM  
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Re: Insulating Porch But Allowing For Drainage


Drainable insulation that can get wet but will dry quick. And that air seals to keep out cold weather. Can it be done? does it exist? Who knows...

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