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How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing

 
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:07 PM   #21
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Instead of nailing a diagonal to the underside of the joists, run a set of diagonal blocking from each corner of the deck from the house connection side.
Takes a bit longer, but is cleaner looking (especially if the owners will be walking under there), and I think it is more effective as bracing. Nailing the brace under the deck, the nails could rust and work themselves free.
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:37 PM   #22
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhaslip View Post
Instead of nailing a diagonal to the underside of the joists, run a set of diagonal blocking from each corner of the deck from the house connection side.
Takes a bit longer, but is cleaner looking (especially if the owners will be walking under there), and I think it is more effective as bracing. Nailing the brace under the deck, the nails could rust and work themselves free.
That's why you dont use nails you would use fastenmaster screws.
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Old 07-12-2015, 11:01 PM   #23
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


I am not convinced that little blocks will have as much strength as 1 continuous board.
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Old 07-13-2015, 05:12 AM   #24
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


The connection to the piers could provide lateral strength .

I have a couple out fastened with custom U shaped brackets made up out of 1 / 2 '' steel flat stock, welded on both sides, 24 '' high. Bolted down to the pier with glav threaded rod and two part Hilti epoxy, then through bolted into the post / bracket .

They are both free standing with 0 movement. 10' high or so no lateral braces at all.

The cost is not bad, my hot rod welder Bud charges me $75 per. I prime / paint them black just for looks but really it would take a forever long time for them to rust out.

John www.deckmastersllc.com
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Old 07-13-2015, 06:38 AM   #25
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Originally Posted by EthanB View Post
None of the jurisdictions in my part of RI will let you bury posts. The diagonal bracing on the underside of the joists should fly though. Any reason you can't use knee bracing other than the HO's "aesthetics"?

What town are you dealing with?


Do you mean below grade burying? I never do decks, but a family member wants a face lift on their existing deck. Nothing major, some new stringers/treads/decking....but I wanted to get the posts off the ground. My first thought was dig out footings and and set the posts in them. Have the footing 24" off the ground so the posts don't sit in the water and snow anymore.

Like I said I don't do decks and don't mean to hijack the thread. This is in Bristol which couldn't be any further for me to go in RI!
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:30 AM   #26
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Originally Posted by killerdecks View Post
I am not convinced that little blocks will have as much strength as 1 continuous board.
This depends a lot on connection and stress details. Fixed to the underside, it's all shear. Diagonal blocking is mixed shear plus pull out. The blocks should be stronger for the same number and type of fasteners if it's all done tight.

Personally, solid blocking would be holding moisture against the side of the joist - I'm not a fan of that and the extra work to do it.
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Old 07-13-2015, 01:11 PM   #27
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


If an adult stands with feet apart and rocks his weight over one leg and then the other, parallel to the house side, it will put lateral forces on the deck.
Have another person standing on the far edge of the deck as a "sensor".

IDK how much deflection at the top of the posts is normal for this condition. I'd think a quarter inch would get people upset but it may be more important as to what the other person senses.

How much wobbling should you see for a deck on two story posts?

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Old 07-13-2015, 02:05 PM   #28
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Here's an engineered detail because a client didn't want knee braces on one of my balconies.
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:18 PM   #29
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
That's why you dont use nails you would use fastenmaster screws.

Fastenmaster,, of course.
I forgot.....
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Old 07-13-2015, 07:28 PM   #30
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Fastenmaster,, of course.
I forgot.....
I'm really not sure what your point is.

There's a lot of guys on this forum who like Fastenmaster. I'm in no way affiliated with them nor do I get special favors from them. They are a huge benefit to my company and deserve any and all kudos I can give. They have earned my business and my respect.
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Old 07-14-2015, 11:27 AM   #31
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Thanks for the pointer about using those screws. I have used them for decking.

Problem with using screws to mount the diagonal blocking is that screws are not allowed as per the Building Code except for attaching subfloor and mounting drywall. Nails everywhere else.
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Old 07-14-2015, 12:27 PM   #32
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlhaslip View Post
Thanks for the pointer about using those screws. I have used them for decking.

Problem with using screws to mount the diagonal blocking is that screws are not allowed as per the Building Code except for attaching subfloor and mounting drywall. Nails everywhere else.
I'm pretty sure these would be more than allowed in most jurisdictions.
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:02 PM   #33
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Wait, your local code folks adopted their own code no not allow screws anywhere on a deck? Nice
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:10 PM   #34
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Wait, your local code folks adopted their own code no not allow screws anywhere on a deck? Nice
He's in Canada, who knows...
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Old 07-14-2015, 01:55 PM   #35
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


FWIW,

A deck diagonal dim is 20'.

An aluminum angle 1/8" thk x 3" x 3" x 20' is clamped between the deck boards and the joists by the fasteners and so this metal angle can resist buckling extremely well, better than a free standing angle.

You can only see the angle from underneath.

For 30 degree angle between the metal and the 1.5" thk joists, the slot length would be slightly over 1.7", the slot depth = 3" and there are as many slots as joists.


Alternatively you could put a 20' x 3/8" thk wood strip under the deck boards but each board would have to notched.
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:08 PM   #36
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Quote:
Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
FWIW,

A deck diagonal dim is 20'.

An aluminum angle 1/8" thk x 3" x 3" x 20' is clamped between the deck boards and the joists by the fasteners and so this metal angle can resist buckling extremely well, better than a free standing angle.

You can only see the angle from underneath.

For 30 degree angle between the metal and the 1.5" thk joists, the slot length would be slightly over 1.7", the slot depth = 3" and there are as many slots as joists.


Alternatively you could put a 20' x 3/8" thk wood strip under the deck boards but each board would have to notched.
So how do you keep the the deck boards flat where they lay on a nailed strap. Notch all the joists and let in the strap?
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Old 07-14-2015, 02:56 PM   #37
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
So how do you keep the the deck boards flat where they lay on a nailed strap. Notch all the joists and let in the strap?
They are slightly not flat, but if that's objectionable . . .

The tops of the joists are in compression.
If you fill a notch in a joist top with an incompressible material then the joist bending resistance is not compromised, at least in principle. The notch cannot begin to close.

Another way is to lay 1/8" strips of almost any width on the joist tops so that they keep the deck boards perfectly flat.

To be fair, note that I have worked on only two decks in my whole life, and one I screwed up and charged the HO nothing.
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Old 07-14-2015, 03:35 PM   #38
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


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Old 07-14-2015, 04:34 PM   #39
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


I'll leave the deck expertise to you guys who build decks on the regular, but anytime you make a notch/cut into the tops or bottoms of the wood you significantly weaken it. Not to mention the PT used nowadays doesn't last nor penetrate that deeply, so yet another area where rot and damage can form more easily.
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Old 07-14-2015, 04:39 PM   #40
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Re: How To Build A Deck 7 Ft High Without Lateral Bracing


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Here's an engineered detail because a client didn't want knee braces on one of my balconies.
Well, thats.. interesting. But why go with the angle iron, when they could have just gone with a 30" box. Angle iron still has significantly more deflection than the box, and they specify it for a full 10" depth anyways.

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