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Decking In England

 
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Old 10-26-2008, 04:47 PM   #21
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Re: Decking In England


Hi Medway, im from Scotland UK, I had a look at your site and some of your decks, why do homeowners in the UK pay for decks like that?? there is no reason why you should see the end grain of your deckboards and call it 'finished' you just need a bit of knowledge man and know how to build things the way they should be built.
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Old 10-26-2008, 05:47 PM   #22
 
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by Scottish Neil View Post
Hi Medway, im from Scotland UK, I had a look at your site and some of your decks, why do homeowners in the UK pay for decks like that?? there is no reason why you should see the end grain of your deckboards and call it 'finished' you just need a bit of knowledge man and know how to build things the way they should be built.

Why shouldn't you see the end of the boards?

I've built a few decks and covered the ends with a timber fillet, simply because it was more convenient to build it that way. I've never had anyone ask about visible end grain at all.

What makes you think visible end grain makes a deck 'un finished'?

Dave
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Old 10-26-2008, 06:02 PM   #23
 
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by jarhead0531 View Post

DPC-- ummm, brick maybe
tanalised-- pressure treated to resist rot

Forget it, already lost interest in that. Just to clarify a couple points though. Are you saying he can't mount a ledger to the building?? Do the decks all have to be freestanding. How can you tell there isn't a gap there, he could have used a couple galv washers as standoffs, god knows I've done it. How do you know he didn't through bolt instead of using expansion anchors. Your making allot of assumptions without asking the man any question first.

If he is doing something wrong, or appears to be doing something wrong you could have said it a little nicer, and not in your first post(unless you created another account just to be a wanker). In closing I'd just like to say.... BOLLOCKS!!!

Barry
Just to clarify. Houses in the UK are almost 100% brick/block construction. Outer skin of brick, inner of block. Some have what we would call cladding on the outside of the upper storey. AIUI most houses in the US have 'siding' covering the outer of the building?

There are new build timber framed houses, but I've never come across one personally.

DPC is a damp proof course, a flexible plastic strip inserted into a course of bricks to prevent damp from the ground rising up.

Airbricks are intended to ventilate the under floor space - we don't have the 'crawl space' I've seen in American movies.

Tanalised is a trade name for pressure treated timber.

Thus if a ledger is attached to a wall its fixed directly to the brickwork, so we can't through bolt. If above DPC then the ledger is spaced 10mm away from the wall using thick galvanised washers.

Expansion bolts could be used, but I prefer self drilling concrete anchors. These cut a thread in the brick and don't expand. Google for 'multi monti' for a description.

Dave
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Old 10-26-2008, 06:36 PM   #24
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Re: Decking In England


OMG...the battle of the Euros..... We most always install endgrain trim rips of the decking 1 1/2''. The skirting butts up to it very cool finish look,a great upsale and it seals up the open grain.

John Mon www.deckmastersllc.com
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:04 PM   #25
 
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Re: Decking In England


[quote=John Hyatt;521301]OMG...the battle of the Euros..... We most always install endgrain trim rips of the decking 1 1/2''. The skirting butts up to it very cool finish look,a great upsale and it seals up the open grain.

John Mon quote]

Not a battle AFAIC just a difference of opinion:-)

How do you deal with curved decks?

Could you explain what you mean by skirting?

Dave
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Old 10-26-2008, 07:53 PM   #26
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by Medway Handyman View Post
Could you explain what you mean by skirting?
Skirting or fascia...vertical board installed on the structural framing to hide it. Usually a 1x12 (25 x 305) or 1x7 (25 x 177) made out of the same material as the decking.

Mac
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Old 10-27-2008, 12:09 AM   #27
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Re: Decking In England


Man you really have to get basic with these guys.

Like the Mac said the skirting covers the botom of the deck,ya know between the dirt and the decking. You can see on my site none of the framing shows.
Using endgrain trim on curved decks,like on my site, incudes 1/4'' x 1 1/2 '' rips built up to 1 1/2'' (if I am using 3/4'' skirting) all the layers guled on and fastened with a 1/4'' staple gun the last one fastened with a brad nailer. Then the whole run is clamped together with hand screw clamps as close together as possible. Leval out with the belt sander/orbital, router detail.

I have a lot of those clamps. Its a funny deal 12'' jorgies cost around $ 20 per on sale at Harbor Freight its $3.99 for the very same thing with out the name. If I found the wood and the threaded rod laying around for free I could not sell the clamps for 4 bucks. J.
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Old 10-27-2008, 03:50 AM   #28
 
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by Scottish Neil View Post
Hi Medway, im from Scotland UK, I had a look at your site and some of your decks, .
Hi Neil

Just had a look at your site, very nice indeed.

One thing, I couldn't see the navigation bars at the top unless I switched to full scree view.

I use IE7. You might want to get that looked at mate.

Dave
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:51 PM   #29
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Re: Decking In England


Medway, was on my site there and it seemed to be ok with me, John Hyatt said on his last post that you need to be real basic with 'these guys' he was meaning guys from the UK, on our decks we use skirt and fascia and you dont see any end grain, you just need to get to know your stuff, in Scotland we only build timber frame with a cavity then a skin of brick, so not nearly 100% of houses built in the UK are brick/block. Just get the knowledge and dont make us look like dumb f**ks.
Below is a pic of what you could finish your decks off like and you dont see any end grain anywere.
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Old 10-28-2008, 04:13 PM   #30
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Re: Decking In England


Medway, there is no building code for decking? you don't need a permit? What about liability? What if you build a deck and it collapses? Who pays?

I've had some conversations with Scottish Neil. He's a good guy and pays attention to what he's doing.

to answer your questions: a bullnose, or edger, covers the ends of the deck boards. It has no real function, other than hiding the endgrains of the boards and is a neat detail that give a more sophisticated, finished look to the deck.
I do all my decks this way. I use a 2x4, but you can do a 2x2, a 2x6, even a 2x8.

a skirt, or closeoff to the ground, does much the same thing. It's more attractive, hides the beams and footings, and can give storage space.
I always put a gate, or door in one side or the other, thus allowing a place for junk, furniture, hoses, whatever. This works even if the deck is only 2 feet off grade.
You would also be wise to spread filter cloth and gravel under the deck, to keep grass and weeds from growing, and to give a cleaner area for things you might store under there.

Since deck building is in it's infancy over there, feel free to ask any questions, any time, and all of us here will be happy to help out.
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Old 10-28-2008, 05:54 PM   #31
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by Scottish Neil View Post
....... in Scotland we only build timber frame with a cavity then a skin of brick, so not nearly 100% of houses built in the UK are brick/block......

We colonials call that wood frame
and brick veneer.

Another nice deck from the Scot.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:24 PM   #32
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Re: Decking In England


Scottish Neil,

Looking at the deck you posted a picture of it is obvious that you do some very good work but I do have a question about the stairs. It appears that the rise between the top step and the deck is much smaller than the rise of the other stairs, are their codes in the UK that govern this? I only ask because here in the states that would probably fail inspection because lack of uniformity of the rises (trip hazard, can't vary more than 3/8" I think)

Barry
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #33
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Re: Decking In England


With the stair detail not right as a given, the balusters going clear to the deck is not right,the posts on the outside and stagared on the corners is kinda clubly and no cross ventalation provided.

Endgrain trim 101>>> its the same size as the decking after being cut flush with the frame it seals up the edge and provides cover for the skirting, dosent allow debri to get inbetween the decking and the skirting like fastening a 2x to the decking will<<<

Using S American lumber like I do endgrain trim stops the checking to the edge as well while adding a routered detail that the Wallet loves. Belive me your no more of a Dummm Fu%kk than anyone else is you just made a few mistakes on that project. John Mon

Last edited by John Hyatt; 10-28-2008 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:57 PM   #34
 
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by Scottish Neil View Post
Medway, was on my site there and it seemed to be ok with me, John Hyatt said on his last post that you need to be real basic with 'these guys' he was meaning guys from the UK, on our decks we use skirt and fascia and you dont see any end grain, you just need to get to know your stuff, in Scotland we only build timber frame with a cavity then a skin of brick, so not nearly 100% of houses built in the UK are brick/block. Just get the knowledge and dont make us look like dumb f**ks.
Below is a pic of what you could finish your decks off like and you dont see any end grain anywere.
Just though I'd mention the site, OE is the most popular browser there is & if visitors can't see the navigation bars they just go elsewhere.

By skirt do you mean something that hides the joistd etc? I nearly always use that.

By fascia I assume you mean a board that hides the end grain? You still haven't said whay visible end grain is a bad thing? I've never had a client mention it.

Never been to Scotland so I wouldn't know how you build houses. Maybe I should have said 'England'. I've never come across a timber frame & skin house in this part of England.

Dave
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:07 PM   #35
 
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Re: Decking In England


[quote=Stone Mountain;522597]Medway, there is no building code for decking? you don't need a permit? What about liability? What if you build a deck and it collapses? Who pays?
quote]

Your public liability insureance I guess.

I always use our Building Regulation specs when building a deck, although technically I don't have to; static/dynamic floor loading tables for joist thickness/support/bracing, spidle gaps on ballustrades, dimesnsions of stairs/steps etc.

I always err on the side of caution.

Dave
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:12 PM   #36
 
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Re: Decking In England


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Originally Posted by jarhead0531 View Post
Scottish Neil,

Looking at the deck you posted a picture of it is obvious that you do some very good work but I do have a question about the stairs. It appears that the rise between the top step and the deck is much smaller than the rise of the other stairs, are their codes in the UK that govern this? I only ask because here in the states that would probably fail inspection because lack of uniformity of the rises (trip hazard, can't vary more than 3/8" I think)

Barry
Can't answer for Scottish Neil, but the English Building Regs (Scotland has different regulations) certainly wouldn't allow that in a dwelling. Decks aren't covered by Building Regs in England - don't know about Scotland.

Dave
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:15 PM   #37
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Re: Decking In England


Even if the building regs don't cover it I assume you gents across the pond do the same as we do and follow best practices, which often exceed the regs. One thing to remember is that the regs specify minimums in most cases. I can't imagine that that people wouldn't be tripping walking up those steps.

Barry
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Old 10-29-2008, 03:46 PM   #38
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Re: Decking In England


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottish Neil View Post
Medway, was on my site there and it seemed to be ok with me, John Hyatt said on his last post that you need to be real basic with 'these guys' he was meaning guys from the UK, on our decks we use skirt and fascia and you dont see any end grain, you just need to get to know your stuff, in Scotland we only build timber frame with a cavity then a skin of brick, so not nearly 100% of houses built in the UK are brick/block. Just get the knowledge and dont make us look like dumb f**ks.
Below is a pic of what you could finish your decks off like and you dont see any end grain anywere.
Funny how y'all in Bonnie cringe at wood-sided & comp-shingled houses that we build here. I know it rains a lot there, especially on the west, but not as much as Seattle or Portland which have lots of "wood" houses. Do you build that way to prevent dry-rot; scarcity of timber; or excess of slate, rock, etc?
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:31 AM   #39
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Re: Decking In England


Chilla watt, I just think british people theing the only way to build is 2 skin of block, I've only ever done a few builds that were timber frame and skined with cedar but they are few and far between, Britain just copies what happens in america a few years earlier, they've just introduced home inspections for buyers in the last few months over here, so eventually we'll build timber with siding
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:31 AM   #40
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Re: Decking In England


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Funny how y'all in Bonnie cringe at wood-sided & comp-shingled houses that we build here. I know it rains a lot there, especially on the west, but not as much as Seattle or Portland which have lots of "wood" houses. Do you build that way to prevent dry-rot; scarcity of timber; or excess of slate, rock, etc?
Up here in Toronto 90 % of all houses are brick veneer construction. siding of any sort is fairly rare, and is used mainly for accents or decor. An all siding house is usually cheaper, and does not go up in upscale neighbourhoods.
Fashion, I suppose.

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