Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall - Decks & Fencing - Contractor Talk

Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-04-2019, 05:51 PM   #1
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quoting this deck with gable roof and just wondering how you guys would go about this.
Here's my obvious options:

1) notch the brick to accept the ridge beam, remove drywall inside to post it down to the foundation. Clean up mess..

2) add extra beam and post at exterior wall to post ridge beam down to - making the roof self supporting and not load bearing on the house. This is ugly and nobody wants to see extra posts and beams at the house.

On a side note - the homeowners "friend" architect spec'd extra footings close to the house to carry the roof load (posted down). Knowing these can screw up the weeping tile, I'm wondering if there's another way.

Thanks



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 01-04-2019, 06:25 PM   #2
edward trowelhands
 
Golden view's Avatar
 
Trade: Diplomat
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PDX
Posts: 4,509
Rewards Points: 6,250

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Can you build the roof without a ridge beam? Either have rafter ties far enough down to work, or have it engineered with them up high. It can be done. What are the dimensions? What's your snow load?

Advertisement

__________________
You make something idiot proof and the world invents a better idiot.
Golden view is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Golden view For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (01-04-2019), heavy_d (01-04-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 06:27 PM   #3
Eater of sins.
 
ScipioAfricanus's Avatar
 
Trade: Designer/Drafter/General Contractor(again)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orange County, CA.
Posts: 3,991
Rewards Points: 1,784

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


They should pay me to design this for them. I am not saying that the design you posted is not good looking but...damn.


Andy.
ScipioAfricanus is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ScipioAfricanus For This Useful Post:
hdavis (01-05-2019)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-04-2019, 06:29 PM   #4
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,315
Rewards Points: 8,257

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Where does the moisture in the old gable cavity above the New roof get to day light????

If you make the veneer brick 'face" the rain screen above the new deck roof, how is the vapor in existing cavity get to daylight?

Maybe a couple of mini-screw piles under the house wall piers to develop the needed capacity inline with the post's center-line....

Just sleeve the drain tile with solid product tile to keep the concrete out of the tile.

What detail are you using to get the floor and roof deck loads into house?

fasteners needed to hold the deck and roof DOWN in the big wind
Any K, x or portal bracing needed to meet code(s) Blocking...Definitely at end of rafter collar ties attachment points

A cable style handrail might need the corner posts to be counter braced.

Place two of the 2 x 12" beam boards inside the outside posts, shorter span = stiffer deck, change up the 2 x 8" to 2 x 10" or 12" at 16" spacing (cheaper and Flatter) on deck joists.

Lap splicing the floor joists over the intermediate beams adds to floor stiffness /less deflection at low add on $

Layout backward from edge and handrail details to minimize waste & max deck footage to fit deck board lengths?

Don't forget the dual snow load on the low pitch roof + deck.....Maybe push metal roof as less likely to amass monster drifts?

Have you considered CMU/ Brick Masonry piers/ pilasters on the house wall to carry the beams & maybe peak loads?
__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 01-04-2019 at 06:58 PM.
Fouthgeneration is offline  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Fouthgeneration For This Useful Post:
heavy_d (01-04-2019), Rio (01-05-2019), SmallTownGuy (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 06:29 PM   #5
edward trowelhands
 
Golden view's Avatar
 
Trade: Diplomat
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: PDX
Posts: 4,509
Rewards Points: 6,250

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Reading it again, it sounds like you're also looking for a way to support the lower beams to avoid any posts at all at the house?
__________________
You make something idiot proof and the world invents a better idiot.
Golden view is offline  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:33 PM   #6
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
They should pay me to design this for them. I am not saying that the design you posted is not good looking but...damn.


Andy.
The design is my own sketchup design, based on their 2D drawings. I did it quick as a way to quote the job.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to heavy_d For This Useful Post:
ScipioAfricanus (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 06:36 PM   #7
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
Where does the moisture in the old gable cavity above the New roof get to day light????



If you make the veneer brick 'face" the rain screen above the new deck roof, how is the vapor in existing cavity get to daylight?



Maybe a couple of mini-screw piles under the house wall piers to develop the needed capacity inline with the post's center-line....



Just sleeve the drain tile with solid product tile to keep the concrete out of the tile.



What detail are you using to get the floor and roof deck loads into house?



fasteners needed to hold the deck and roof DOWN in the big wind

Any K, x or portal bracing needed to meet code(s) Blocking...Definitely at end of rafter collar ties attachment points



A cable style handrail might need the corner posts to be counter braced.
Fourth, while I admire your enthusiasm. and these are excellent questions, they are questions for the designer if the project ever gets that far. I am just in the estimate stage to see if thr homeowner wants to play ball.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
Old 01-04-2019, 06:44 PM   #8
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Here are the homeowner supplied designs.

They have the roof beams posted down to the ground close to the house with footings. I know this won't fly unless I do indeed excavate and prepare around the weeping tile.

Do You guys think one of these bolt on brackets would work? See attached picture. It bolts to the foundation and carries load.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to heavy_d For This Useful Post:
hdavis (01-05-2019), ScipioAfricanus (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 06:48 PM   #9
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden view View Post
Can you build the roof without a ridge beam? Either have rafter ties far enough down to work, or have it engineered with them up high. It can be done. What are the dimensions? What's your snow load?
Golden the entire roof is 24 feet wide (12 feet per side). Yes I could suggest to the homeowner that we go with rafter ties 1/3 up the height of the roof instead of collar ties. He wants T&G cedar ceiling anyway so I don't think that will matter. This will take care of the ridge issue.
Seeing how the roof is 24 feet wide, the collar ties would be approx 16' long. I haven't seen rafter ties on a span chart, and I certainly don't want them to sag.



Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder

Last edited by heavy_d; 01-04-2019 at 07:28 PM.
heavy_d is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to heavy_d For This Useful Post:
Golden view (01-04-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 07:37 PM   #10
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Here is the snow load.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
Old 01-04-2019, 07:43 PM   #11
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


So I found a span chart that I believe will be appropriate for rafter ties. Maximum Spans for Ceiling Joists - Attic Not Accessible. According to this chart, I will need 2x8 rafter ties for my almost 16 foot span.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to heavy_d For This Useful Post:
Golden view (01-04-2019), hdavis (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 07:57 PM   #12
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,315
Rewards Points: 8,257

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Scissors Trusses? 2/12 under the 4/12? Eliminates the need for second story of center post?
Is it a four story house or walk out three story with a unknown depth of frost footing on the basement patio/French door?

Don't forget every story higher = lower production, higher equipment costs, are allowed a teleboom?

Surely the prints exist? or a per foot surcharge for surprises, don't forget any utilities that might be in the footing holes.

The Two center posts have much higher loads then the others, and the outer posts more then the house side columns.

RE: snow, that sounds good for Roof snow load, but won't there be simultaneous snow load on deck below?

So snow load deck + roof snow =total on columns under roof & deck.

An under deck roof to dry out the space in front of the walk out basement? More Party space in the big rain....lawn junk and patio furniture storage....

Elephant toe under grade forms maybe, probably cheaper to pour two pours, depending need for haste.
__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 01-04-2019 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Snow loads
Fouthgeneration is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Fouthgeneration For This Useful Post:
heavy_d (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 09:14 PM   #13
Pro
 
pathbuilder's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Michigan
Posts: 187
Rewards Points: 406

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Excuse my ignorance here (honest). Could doing something like this (w/ the need of an architect) be a good example of approaching with a cost plus pricing model?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
pathbuilder is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to pathbuilder For This Useful Post:
heavy_d (01-05-2019)
Old 01-04-2019, 09:59 PM   #14
Pro
 
TheConstruct's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Kamloops BC
Posts: 520
Rewards Points: 1,010

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


I agree with fourthgen about scissor trusses. I'm curious if anyone's used those bolt on brackets, they look neat.
TheConstruct is offline  
Old 01-05-2019, 01:18 AM   #15
GC/carpenter
 
Calidecks's Avatar
 
Trade: Decking, Railing, Carpenter/General Contractor
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Anaheim Hills, California (OC)
Posts: 36,547
Rewards Points: 18,378

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Looks freestanding? Why not beam the back wall with a king post?


Mike.
_______________
Calidecks is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Calidecks For This Useful Post:
heavy_d (01-05-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 07:44 AM   #16
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,070
Rewards Points: 333

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Transfer beams made from lvl at each end to support the ridge beam.
__________________
I'd love to replace all the dumbness in this room but the budget is tight and the stupidity is plentiful!

Easy Gibson
Warren is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
heavy_d (01-05-2019)
Old 01-05-2019, 05:53 PM   #17
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,315
Rewards Points: 8,257

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


As an Up sell, plan to enclose the roofed deck into either a three season room, or even a Four season day-Sun room.

To code insulation details and MEP provisions built in?

Your posted section shows NO beam at the house side of the deck, just the 'Rim' joist fastened to the brick and maybe framing?

The addition appears to partially bear on the old work, and self supporting in other loads, making it for me hard to determine load paths and sizing of members.

Can you get a Grave Plot heaters in there to start work before the frost melts?

I rather work on frost then in mud bogg.
__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Old 01-05-2019, 06:34 PM   #18
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Transfer beams made from lvl at each end to support the ridge beam.
Would need to be quite large LVL as the span is 24'. I'm pretty well decided I'm going to quote it with rafter ties so I don't need a ridge beam.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:32 PM   #19
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by pathbuilder View Post
Excuse my ignorance here (honest). Could doing something like this (w/ the need of an architect) be a good example of approaching with a cost plus pricing model?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Yes definitely. I've been informed at least two other quotes were acquired for the job.
This very well may be a price shopper. I just wanted to lock down a solid design for which I can give him a fairly precise quote. I believe im decided on the rafter tie roof. Eliminates the need for huge LVL beam against the house or extra posts at the house, or tearing open their house to post the ridge beam down to foundation.

If I was approached with a budget and the customer wanted me to do the work, and there were more variables unknown, I would definitely suggest a cost plus.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
Old 01-05-2019, 07:34 PM   #20
Wormdrive Operator
 
heavy_d's Avatar
 
Trade: Contractor
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Durham Region, Ontario
Posts: 3,315
Rewards Points: 6,882

Re: Attaching Gable Roof To Brick Exterior Wall


Quote:
Originally Posted by Californiadecks View Post
Looks freestanding? Why not beam the back wall with a king post?


Mike.
_______________
I don't think the homeowner would want the extra middle post against his house. Also I'm trying to avoid having to use giant LVL beam.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Advertisement

__________________
Aztec Decks
Oshawa deck builder
heavy_d is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to heavy_d For This Useful Post:
Calidecks (01-05-2019)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shed Roof With Brick Veneer Detail Xtrememtnbiker General Discussion 11 07-21-2018 01:44 PM
Working on my own roof red_cedar Roofing Picture Post 18 10-18-2013 06:47 PM
Revised OSHA Reg's for Fall Prevention Roofmaster417 Roofing 19 03-16-2011 03:26 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?