Wiring In An Inverter. - Electrical - Contractor Talk

Wiring In An Inverter.

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2009, 11:56 PM   #1
 
Hersheyplumbing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 25
Rewards Points: 10

Wiring In An Inverter.


Got a 3000w inverter and am going to wire it in a toolbox in the bed of my truck, and put an outlet in end. Now, I realize these thing need big wires ran from the battery, What is the minimum size I can get away with if I run about 11 ft. And, do I need to run a wire for negative or will grounding to vehicle be fine. The truck is an f250 diesel with duel batts.
Hersheyplumbing is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 02-07-2009, 12:08 AM   #2
Error Corrector
 
olyteddy's Avatar
 
Trade: Maintenance Manager
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Olympia WA
Posts: 141
Rewards Points: 75

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Well, figure you're stepping the voltage up by a factor of 10. 3000 watts output at 120 volts is 25 amperes. Therefore (assuming a 100% efficient inveter - probably not in the real world) your input current will be 10 times that, or 250 amps. That means you need a pretty honkin big battery cable to draw 3000 watts from your inverter...Since you're not likely to draw the full load continuously, I'd consider moving the inverter closer to the batteries or move one of the batteries closer to the inverter.

Advertisement


Last edited by olyteddy; 02-07-2009 at 12:11 AM.
olyteddy is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 12:23 AM   #3
Handle It!
 
MALCO.New.York's Avatar
 
Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA
Posts: 9,588
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


#4 AWG/T or larger (we use 2/0 Welding Cable for 48VDC set ups in Cell Sites) and Isolators and PROBABLY a larger Alternator. BIG FUSE at the Battery(s).

Diesel or Gas.

One or Two Batteries???

A Block of Batteries at the Inverter.

Big Capacitors for Voltage Regulation.


^^^^ Most of this is OVERKILL because a 3K inverter is big but NOT THAT BIG!!!^^^^
__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE

Last edited by MALCO.New.York; 02-08-2009 at 05:32 AM.
MALCO.New.York is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-07-2009, 08:20 AM   #4
Pro
 
mrmike's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical & Carpentry
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Adirondacks of NY
Posts: 838
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I installed the same wattage (3000) in my van. I don't remember what size wire I started with (I think #8) and the inverter would not run my saws right-it would just "cut out" as I was running the saws (skil-saw)
I changed the cable to #2 awg welding cable like Malco said & I did'nt have a problem after that............
mrmike is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 08:59 AM   #5
Electrical Contractor
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 2,411
Rewards Points: 1,244

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post

^^^^ Most of this is OVERKILL because a 3K inverter is big but NOT THAT BIG!!!^^^^
Well it IS pretty big to be mounted inside a vehicle. Also, finding a way to run AND terminate the large cables required is a challenge as well.

I had a 3k under the seat of my old van and now I have no place to put it in the new van where I can safely run the cables to.


I used 1/0 welding cable and just ran it across the sill into the engine bay. It was NOT a very good installation, but it worked for the short time it was there.
__________________

Speedy Petey is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 09:20 AM   #6
Handle It!
 
MALCO.New.York's Avatar
 
Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA
Posts: 9,588
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I used 1/0 welding cable and just ran it across the sill into the engine bay. It was NOT a very good installation, but it worked for the short time it was there.
Running the Cable UNDER the vehicle along the frame is the best solution.
__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE
MALCO.New.York is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 09:27 AM   #7
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: Maker of Fine Sawdust
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 42,402
Rewards Points: 5,579

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I have the same setup. There is no way you are going to be able to run it properly with the battery 11ft away. For proper operation you will need a cable that is 3/4" thick (???AWG) and no longer that 18". The voltage drop across this cable at full output is what you need to worry about. If you are just going to run it at a kilowatt or so you might be able to get away with it. The company I got mine from (Vector) also had the cables, it was welding cable, very fine strands bundled together to make it flexible. Your best bet is to get a battery and place it right next to the inverter and use these cables. That way you will be able to use the full output. I can power my house with mine. Obviously not everything, but a few lights, the refrigerator, the oil furnace and a TV is as much as I have ever used off of it. If you connect you separate inverter battery to the alternator you can charge it or run it off the alternator when the main battery gets low. I could usually use mine for an 8 hour day with sanders, chopsaws and small tools. The tablesaw would take it down a lot quicker. I could start up my 1HP compressor but it would only do it a few times off the battery alone. With the alternator connected it would do it all day. If I had a second battery it would have been much better. I have an 105 AH AGM battery. I bought it 8 years ago and it is still working pretty good. This is a battery that is designed for an inverter. It is a deep discharge battery. If you did what you can do to this battery with a normal car battery of equivalent capacity the battery would be dead in 10 cycles, don't ask me how I know that.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Sanding is the bane of my existence
WWG1WGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 02-07-2009, 10:22 AM   #8
Electrical Contractor
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 2,411
Rewards Points: 1,244

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MALCO.New.York View Post
Running the Cable UNDER the vehicle along the frame is the best solution.
I realize that, but that was not an option at the time, and I am not cool with doing that on the new van. Besides, it would put it quite far away from the battery in that case.
I can live without it for now. I did for years.
__________________

Speedy Petey is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 10:22 AM   #9
Electrical Contractor
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NY State
Posts: 2,411
Rewards Points: 1,244

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Nice setup Leo. Is that an under bed box on a flatbed?
__________________

Speedy Petey is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 10:33 AM   #10
 
Bubbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 428
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


nice leo. and nice topic. For some reason I've never been anywhere where I couldn't find some power so, I didn't have to think about that problem yet...
Bubbles is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 05:13 PM   #11
Head Grunt
 
woodchuck2's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical Contractor&Home Maintenance
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Creek, NY/Lower Adirondacks
Posts: 3,270
Rewards Points: 2,196

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I used 2/0 stranded copper for my 2k,4k surge inverter that is mounted in my trailer. The inverter is mounted on the top shelf and the 770CCA marine battery is mounted on the floor in a battery box. I have the power lead from the trailer plug hooked to the battery so it is being charged when it is hooked to the truck. I have bought a small A/C battery charger that is good for 60 amps that i plan to mount next to the inverter so i can recharge the trailer battery with a cord or generator if need be.
woodchuck2 is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 05:17 PM   #12
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: Maker of Fine Sawdust
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 42,402
Rewards Points: 5,579

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I use to work in a lot of 18th century homes. You know 2 outlets for 3 rooms all of them with 6 paks on them and full. So I set that up. It is in a Weather Gaurd Super Box. 21 cu ft. 8' x 2'h x 16"d

This is the setup.

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Sanding is the bane of my existence
WWG1WGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  
Old 02-07-2009, 05:23 PM   #13
Handle It!
 
MALCO.New.York's Avatar
 
Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA
Posts: 9,588
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


There is also available an Auto-Start kit that will start and stop the truck engine according to load-usage.

It works well for situations where the Inverter is use Daily but Sporadically during said day.
__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE
MALCO.New.York is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:12 PM   #14
Pro
 
mickeyco's Avatar
 
Trade: Squirrel Handler
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,432
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo G View Post
I use to work in a lot of 18th century homes. You know 2 outlets for 3 rooms all of them with 6 paks on them and full. So I set that up. It is in a Weather Gaurd Super Box. 21 cu ft. 8' x 2'h x 16"d

This is the setup.

I just bought the same Craftsman 3 drawer toolbox, $20.00 full of tools, thing looks like it's new.


.
Attached Thumbnails
Wiring in an inverter.-toolbox.jpg  
__________________
Some people climb mountains. I take out the trash. But we both do it for the same reason.
mickeyco is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:19 PM   #15
Head Grunt
 
woodchuck2's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical Contractor&Home Maintenance
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Creek, NY/Lower Adirondacks
Posts: 3,270
Rewards Points: 2,196

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I finally took pics of my power supply. Trailer is a mess right now, waiting for it to warm up and give it a thorough cleaning.
Attached Thumbnails
Wiring in an inverter.-dscf3175.jpg   Wiring in an inverter.-dscf3176.jpg   Wiring in an inverter.-dscf3177.jpg  
woodchuck2 is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 06:32 PM   #16
Pro
 
Kgmz's Avatar
 
Trade: General, Electrical, and Plumbing Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Portland, OR & Eatonville, WA
Posts: 1,300
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Leo G has it right, you need the inverter as close as you can get it to the battery, unless you want to use some huge wire Then you can run a extension or hard wire a 120 outlet to the back of the truck.

Remember 3000 watts is 25 amps at 120 volts, but is 250 amps at 12 volts at the full power rating.

From my Prosine manual, recommended cable sizes for 3000 watts:

5ft, 4/0
10ft, 350MCM
15ft, 500MCM
20ft, 750MCM
30ft, 1000MCM


So as you can see it is much easier to run the battery cable as short as possible, and then run some 10 gauge from the inverter to a outlet.
Kgmz is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 07:02 PM   #17
Sharpie
 
trav007's Avatar
 
Trade: Renovation contractor
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mission B.C.
Posts: 227
Rewards Points: 150

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I don't have any pictures of my set up right now but I have a 2000/4000 watt set up. I run it from a switch on the dash via a heavy duty solenoid under the hood. I run #2 wire but the cable is pretty long (6-10 feet or so) I think I will put another battery in conjunction with this set up. Only problem with this is that it will negate the dash switch as the new battery would be downstream of this connection. HMMMM.....What exactly is the benefit of having a charger hooked up to the inverter system.....I would think that if your battery dies, your inverter is no longer working, therefore the charger won't charge the now dead battery. I guess if your near a power source you can plug it in and away you go but for me the inverter is for when there is no power available....so I'd be hooped anyways. Thoughts...
__________________
Travis
www.customkreations.ca
"The most perfect technique is that which is not noticed at all"
-Pablo Casals
trav007 is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 07:09 PM   #18
Head Grunt
 
woodchuck2's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical Contractor&Home Maintenance
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Creek, NY/Lower Adirondacks
Posts: 3,270
Rewards Points: 2,196

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


I use the A/C battery charger for when the trailer battery gets low with leaving the interior lights on and charging batteries all day. I always carry the Honda generator so i can power up all the larger tools with that if no A/C power is available and that will also recharge the trailer battery if need be.
woodchuck2 is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 07:11 PM   #19
Handle It!
 
MALCO.New.York's Avatar
 
Trade: Everything The Union Guys Do Not Want To Do
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY ~ Haverford, PA
Posts: 9,588
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


Isolator block at the under hood Battery.

Relay control somewhere.

2/0 welding from the Isolator to the Battery Block at the Inverter.
__________________
Something to One may be Nothing to another!

Ultimate Wisdom---------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-cnizLDEE
MALCO.New.York is offline  
Old 02-07-2009, 10:26 PM   #20
LRG WoodCrafting

 
Leo G's Avatar
 
Trade: Maker of Fine Sawdust
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Windsor Locks, Connecticut
Posts: 42,402
Rewards Points: 5,579

Re: Wiring In An Inverter.


My charger is for the end of the day. Plug it in overnight and it charges the battery to peak. It is a 3 stage charger designed to treat the AGM batter just right. Like I said, it is 8 years old and is almost as good as new. Charging off the alternator is a little harsh, the battery doesn't like to be charged with high currents, it will shorten the life. But if need be I will do it. I use a #2 from the alternator to the battery for charging. I rarely run it off the alternator, usually at the end of a long day. Or during power outages when I am running my house off of it.

Advertisement

__________________
Sawdust Follows Me Everywhere
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
Sanding is the bane of my existence
WWG1WGA

Quote:
Originally Posted by HusqyPro View Post
Carpenter by day.
Mad scientist by night.
http://lrgwood.com
Custom Cabinets in Hartford County Connecticut
Leo G is online now  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ansul system wiring rad04 Electrical 16 07-27-2017 10:18 PM
'Quick Wiring' question nadonailer Electrical 85 05-31-2009 08:57 AM
Carrier Mod 24ACA - got a ? about the wiring Tisky67 Electrical 4 02-01-2009 12:24 PM
Ripped out wiring shed-n-deck Electrical 17 12-16-2007 12:55 PM
Garage - Protecting wiring installation eastment Electrical 1 11-22-2005 02:52 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?