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Wire Splice?

 
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Old 09-17-2016, 09:19 PM   #21
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Re: Wire Splice?


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There was an episode of This Old House where they toured Ted Benson's timber frame shop where they build all the walls modularly and they used these non-metalic sheathed connectors to prewire the whole house. Not sure if it's applicable in your area, but I had never seen/heard of them before.

It's at 18:44 of the following video
https://youtu.be/l8ePHc5oALU?t=1123
These is a CSA approved version, it's a IDC on both sides and then they click together.
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:26 PM   #22
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Re: Wire Splice?


So what happens when you find a concealed box on a job?

For example, you're adding a recessed light and when you remove the existing one, you discover an additional box up in the ceiling that's supplying your light? Pretend you don't see it and just continue?

Or you're replace a damaged ceiling and when you pull the old one down, same discovery....and you can't just move it to be flush with the ceiling...then what?

Or you're replacing a vent hood, and presto...there's a hidden metal box back there, too. Just wondering in general what you guys do.
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:38 PM   #23
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Re: Wire Splice?


Put it in a proper box, leave an opening in the wall / ceiling and cover it with a return air register.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:10 PM   #24
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
So what happens when you find a concealed box on a job?

For example, you're adding a recessed light and when you remove the existing one, you discover an additional box up in the ceiling that's supplying your light? Pretend you don't see it and just continue?

Or you're replace a damaged ceiling and when you pull the old one down, same discovery....and you can't just move it to be flush with the ceiling...then what?

Or you're replacing a vent hood, and presto...there's a hidden metal box back there, too. Just wondering in general what you guys do.
If it's behind a recessed light it's considered accessible here.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:16 PM   #25
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by 480sparky View Post
Put it in a proper box, leave an opening in the wall / ceiling and cover it with a return air register.
Or something like this. http://www.oatey.com/products/rough-...l/access-panel

They come in many sizes. Just cut the drywall out to the dimensions and glue them in. You can get them at any box store.
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:21 PM   #26
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Re: Wire Splice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
So what happens when you find a concealed box on a job?

For example, you're adding a recessed light and when you remove the existing one, you discover an additional box up in the ceiling that's supplying your light? Pretend you don't see it and just continue?

Or you're replace a damaged ceiling and when you pull the old one down, same discovery....and you can't just move it to be flush with the ceiling...then what?

Or you're replacing a vent hood, and presto...there's a hidden metal box back there, too. Just wondering in general what you guys do.
Just went through this. Installing 2 new recessed lights. Was going to Greenfield into the existing ceiling junction box. Customer did not want the box in the ceiling with a cover. Ceiling removed, walls opened, EMT routed to the wall outlets, pulled new wire, drywall, tape, prime, paint.

Easy--peasy.

Tom
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Old 09-22-2016, 06:30 PM   #27
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
Customer did not want the box in the ceiling with a cover. Ceiling removed, walls opened, EMT routed to the wall outlets, pulled new wire, drywall, tape, prime, paint.

Easy--peasy.

Tom
Yep, happens on nearly every job for me. Once they get the price for pulling the ceiling and replacing it, you separate the men from the boys.

Most opt to have it pulled and do it right in my case. But at least there is an alternative to offer to save money. This is my go to blank up since it's really hard to spot unless you're looking for it. The metal LIPPED Mulberry blank up.

https://www.gexpro.com/ceiling-boxes...product/125852

The ones without the lip or the plastic ones look like dog crap.
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Old 09-22-2016, 07:51 PM   #28
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Re: Wire Splice?


Same cover I use. I put one in their laundry room, they did not one in their family room.

Tom
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Old 09-22-2016, 08:58 PM   #29
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Re: Wire Splice?


You guys are giving easy examples. Sometimes you just can't reroute it without opening up a whole bunch of stuff they insist they won't pay extra to have you do. Then what?

Btw, is it still accessible if somebody down the road won't know where to find it?

How about a box tucked behind a medicine cabinet (removable with 4 screws)? Kosher or not?
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Old 09-22-2016, 09:01 PM   #30
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Re: Wire Splice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rselectric1 View Post
Or something like this. http://www.oatey.com/products/rough-...l/access-panel

They come in many sizes. Just cut the drywall out to the dimensions and glue them in. You can get them at any box store.
I always wish there were more sizes and they looked better. Ugly except for basements, closets and utility rooms. (paint doesn't cut it)

Last edited by MarkJames; 09-22-2016 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 08:55 AM   #31
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Re: Wire Splice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
You guys are giving easy examples. Sometimes you just can't reroute it without opening up a whole bunch of stuff they insist they won't pay extra to have you do. Then what?

Btw, is it still accessible if somebody down the road won't know where to find it?

How about a box tucked behind a medicine cabinet (removable with 4 screws)? Kosher or not?
The job is permitted. If the inspector won't approve the install the customer has to pay to make it compliant.

They don't want to pay, I don't do the job.

Depends on how you interpret "Accessible". I believe if the medicine cabinet can be removed without damaging the structure you're good. If you have to damage the structure, not good.

http://nfpa.typepad.com/files/70-14article100.pdf

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Old 09-23-2016, 12:17 PM   #32
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Re: Wire Splice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post

Btw, is it still accessible if somebody down the road won't know where to find it?

Yes.

How about a box tucked behind a medicine cabinet (removable with 4 screws)? Kosher or not?
IMO, no - the cabinet winds up being caulked in over time. You can replace the back panel so you can have access, though.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:42 PM   #33
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by Agility View Post


My electrician recently showed me these. Passes code here. Blew my mind!
Not sure that is done per code.... You can't just use them anywhere. Here is the section in the NEC


Quote:
334.30(C) Wiring Device Without a Separate Outlet Box. A
wiring device identified for the use, without a separate outlet
box, and incorporating an integral cable clamp shall be
permitted where the cable is secured in place at intervals
not exceeding 1.4 m (41⁄2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.)
from the wiring device wall opening, and there shall be at
least a 300 mm (12 in.) loop of unbroken cable or 150 mm
(6 in.) of a cable end available on the interior side of the
finished wall to permit replacement.
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Old 09-23-2016, 12:57 PM   #34
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
IMO, no - the cabinet winds up being caulked in over time. You can replace the back panel so you can have access, though.
I've never seen or heard of a caulked in medicine cabinet.

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Old 09-23-2016, 01:13 PM   #35
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Re: Wire Splice?


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I've never seen or heard of a caulked in medicine cabinet.

Tom
You've never removed one where someone had caulked where it meets the wall? Not too uncommon around here.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:35 PM   #36
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Re: Wire Splice?


Quote:
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You've never removed one where someone had caulked where it meets the wall? Not too uncommon around here.

If the wall is plumb there should be no reason to caulk it in however I could see where that could be an issue on plaster walls and older homes

Last edited by C'est Moi; 09-23-2016 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:39 PM   #37
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Re: Wire Splice?


Plumb is one thing. Flat is something else.
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Old 09-23-2016, 01:47 PM   #38
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Re: Wire Splice?


And installed into walls that are textured. Nearly every medicine cabinet I've seen around here/and installed gets caulked.
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:04 PM   #39
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Re: Wire Splice?


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You've never removed one where someone had caulked where it meets the wall? Not too uncommon around here.
Not once---ever.

Tom
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Old 09-23-2016, 02:13 PM   #40
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Re: Wire Splice?


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Originally Posted by tjbnwi View Post
Not once---ever.

Tom
I've seen em caulked here, heck mine at home is caulked.

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