Pool Bonding / Grounding - Electrical - Contractor Talk

Pool Bonding / Grounding

 
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:50 PM   #1
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Pool Bonding / Grounding


Hey all, looking for some advice on grounding / bonding my new build pool. I appoligize if im using the terms incorrect but to my knowledge grounding is say electrical appliances where as bonding is to things like the pool ladders ect?

First, i definately plan to have a qualified electrician look over everything after just trying to do as much myself as possible.

So im building a pool, built with insulated concrete forums (styrofoam concrete styrofoam) , the walls have a 6" concrete with rebar core, and the floor has a 6" concrete slab with rebar and hydronic pex floor heat lines. unfortuanetly i feel i screwed up and should have tied in some copper to the floor rebar grid to run to a ground rod (ill chissel some up if need be) I do have some rebar that protrudes out of the walls but it isnt necessarily all tied together. Im running low voltage 12v lighting, pvc water lines, and im planning on putting aluminum sheets on the inside of the pool walls for strength between the liner and styrofoam. My pump house will be about 10ft from the pool.

What would be the best way to bond / ground the setup here?

should i pound a ground rod and run seperate 8 guage copper to each electrical appliance like my pump, salt water generator, electric boiler? Where would be the best place to put this ground rod? close or far as possible ect.

The aluminum panelling i plan to place behind the liner, should each piece be tied to the next and also grounded?

I currently have a 50amp gfi breaker from my old hottub ill be using, would it be a good idea to install a seperate sub panel after this, inside my pump house and maybe run a individual GFI breaker for each appliance, pump ect?

I appreciate any advice, id rather go overboard then not enough!!
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Old 04-27-2019, 11:53 PM   #2
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


few photos
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Pool bonding / grounding-screenshot_20190427-235140_gallery_1556427161448.jpg   Pool bonding / grounding-screenshot_20190427-235150_gallery_1556427187233.jpg  

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Old 04-28-2019, 08:01 AM   #3
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Why put the aluminum on the walls?
My walls were plastic and when I had a new liner installed I had them put thin foam layer on the walls before they put the liner in.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:37 AM   #4
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


My suggestion would to get a qualified sparky in there BEFORE you do anything else. Not only will it be done the best (cost effective) way, but more importantly the correct and SAFE way. My $.02
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:20 AM   #5
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


The aluminum panels are to protect the styrofoam as well as the liner from certain spots of exposed concrete, as well as to attach my return jets and lights to, plus it will give a much better feel by touching the liner rather than someone poking it and it leaving a forever imprint

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Why put the aluminum on the walls?
My walls were plastic and when I had a new liner installed I had them put thin foam layer on the walls before they put the liner in.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:34 AM   #6
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


I can accept that opinion and i likely will. But it would still be nice to have more opinions and suggestions i could bring up to bounce of the guy rather than just listening to him, some guys can bull**** alot just to get your money!

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My suggestion would to get a qualified sparky in there BEFORE you do anything else. Not only will it be done the best (cost effective) way, but more importantly the correct and SAFE way. My $.02
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:40 AM   #7
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


The very first thing to do is find out what the manufacturer's installation requirements are.

The NEC requirements are generally pretty straight forward.
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Old 04-28-2019, 10:55 AM   #8
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Im the manufacturer lol its not a standard pool there isnt any recommendations on it that i found prior ( main reason i havnt taken care of this prior)

The equipment pumps, salt generator ect simply requires a ground rod
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:38 PM   #9
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by arudam View Post
The aluminum panels are to protect the styrofoam as well as the liner from certain spots of exposed concrete, as well as to attach my return jets and lights to, plus it will give a much better feel by touching the liner rather than someone poking it and it leaving a forever imprint


Your jets, skimmers, lights, and any pipe should have already been set prior to your pour. Then when you put the liner in you fasten the trims to the other half of the jet, skimmer, light. That's what holds them in place.


How do you plan on fastening the metal to the ICF?
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:42 PM   #10
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


When I did my pool in '06 all metal had to have one continuous ground. Ladders, hand rails, rebar.
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:55 PM   #11
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


The metal would fasten mostly at the top rim and then a few random spots on the drywall strips in the icf (water pressure would hold the bottom later). When i poured the concrete i notched out the upper 2" on the inside for the purpose of a secure mount point for both the liner track and the metal sheeting. I built large 8" pipe pockets so i could easily get my hands in to mount lights and returns afterwards. if i skip the metal liner i can still just put caps on my pockets to mount return jets/lights. the skimmer i installed before the pour, but the others i didnt so it would be easier to waterproof the exterior and a few different reasons (photos attached)



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Quote:
Originally Posted by arudam View Post
The aluminum panels are to protect the styrofoam as well as the liner from certain spots of exposed concrete, as well as to attach my return jets and lights to, plus it will give a much better feel by touching the liner rather than someone poking it and it leaving a forever imprint


Your jets, skimmers, lights, and any pipe should have already been set prior to your pour. Then when you put the liner in you fasten the trims to the other half of the jet, skimmer, light. That's what holds them in place.


How do you plan on fastening the metal to the ICF?
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Pool bonding / grounding-screenshot_20190428-144811_gallery_1556481294343.jpg   Pool bonding / grounding-screenshot_20190428-144801_gallery_1556481313789.jpg  
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Old 04-28-2019, 02:59 PM   #12
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Thats my issue, i know although most rebar should be, not every piece will be connected. Big mistake on my behalf trusting what i thought was a good electricians advice, and then not seeing any detail about bonding on any other persons ICF builds. i totally wasnt concerned about it prior, but now i am

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When I did my pool in '06 all metal had to have one continuous ground. Ladders, hand rails, rebar.
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Old 04-28-2019, 06:57 PM   #13
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Quote:
Originally Posted by arudam View Post
Im the manufacturer lol its not a standard pool there isnt any recommendations on it that i found prior ( main reason i havnt taken care of this prior)

The equipment pumps, salt generator ect simply requires a ground rod
I'm not talking about the pools, I'm talking about the pumps, salt generator, etc.

Electric and grounding requirements per manufacturer.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:31 PM   #14
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


This is not something you're going to get a valid definitive answer to on an internet forum.

You need someone on-site with a good understanding of the relevant NEC regulations, the devices that will be installed, and perhaps most of all well acquainted with what the local AHJ wants to see. That last one can vary widely, even though technically it shouldn't.

Bite the bullet and hire an electrician who is familiar with this sort of work, and can come up with ways to make what you have in place acceptable. Which is what you should have done before the shovel hit the dirt. Not intending to be offensive, but that's the cold truth.
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:20 PM   #15
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


I will second what Tinstaafl said:
Hire an electrician who is well versed in Pool Bonding!
Pool bonding is nothing to skimp on and it must be done correctly. You and your families , (not mention who ever else uses this pool) Safety is the reason for a properly bonded pool AND SURROUNDING DECK AREA

I saw a post about pumps and such only needing a ground rod ! THIS IS 100 % INCORRECT. That statement is why I am being blunt by saying hire someone who knows.
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Old 05-04-2019, 12:41 PM   #16
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Well I did hire a electrician to come out, a guy who had built a pool exact to mine using ICF, he said he didnt bond his and i need not worry being that it will also have a vinyl liner , low voltage lighting and gfi protected equipment. its not that there is a metal shell on the pool that could come in contact if the liner ripped. im at a loss here, My issue is that all the rebar in the pool wasnt intentionally connected and if it is its just by chance (floor to walls ect). it would be impossible for me to now bond every piece of rebar in the pool and nobody can give me an answer.

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Quote:
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Im the manufacturer lol its not a standard pool there isnt any recommendations on it that i found prior ( main reason i havnt taken care of this prior)

The equipment pumps, salt generator ect simply requires a ground rod
I'm not talking about the pools, I'm talking about the pumps, salt generator, etc.

Electric and grounding requirements per manufacturer.
Yes that will be done
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Old 05-04-2019, 05:53 PM   #17
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Maybe you and members of your family can wear sealed "survival suits" before they enter??
Seriously, get this done the CORRECT way. I think I am with the rest of us in saying, we don't want to read about this pool in the news.
No offense..............
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Old 05-04-2019, 08:21 PM   #18
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


Not that long ago they used to require grounded mesh all of the way around the pool 5 ft wide I believe.
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Old 05-05-2019, 09:22 AM   #19
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


the issue is clearly nobody so far can tell me "the right way"
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Old 05-05-2019, 10:26 AM   #20
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Re: Pool Bonding / Grounding


The issue is clearly that you are building this as a DIY project, without having done due diligence before beginning.

I'm not saying that as a put-down, just as fact. We've all done that at one time or another, though usually with projects more easily rectified than what you have in place. It may well be that the only "right way" is to tear it out and start over. But there's no way for us to say authoritatively one way or the other from behind these keyboards.

Again, you need a competent professional on-site to evaluate all the variables and take responsibility (if he can) to do whatever's necessary to make the project safe and code-compliant.

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