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Microwave Circut

 
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Old 05-19-2009, 12:36 PM   #1
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Microwave Circut


Hey sparkys I have a quick question .

I'm doing the cabinet removal and install portion on a condo remodel .

Electrician is going to tie a new undercabinet microwave outlet off the 20 amp circut the fridge is on . He says that is all that will be on that circut and will be fine .

His other option is to tie off the garbage disposal circut but it is only 15 amps . I think this is the better way to go as not using these appliances at the same time seems doable . Not so with the fridge /micro combo .


I'll admit it wold be almost immpossible for him to run a new circut to the breaker panel since the unit has concrete floors and ceilings .

I've expressed my concern about this not being right and the money I will have to charge if I must remove some cabinets because he is wrong and the breaker trips every time they use the micro .

I know enough about electric work to stay away from it and he is the proffesional BUT is he right ?

Thanks
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Old 05-19-2009, 01:36 PM   #2
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Re: Microwave Circut


Code says that the built in micro must have it's own 20A circuit.

The refer is likely on with the counter top receps circuit. Refer + micro = coffee maker = tripped breaker.

If the refer is for some reason on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, you will be OK amps wise but still not to code.



If the refer is for some reason on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, use it for the micro and tap off the kit recep circuit to refeed the refer.



Quote:
I'll admit it wold be almost immpossible for him to run a new circut to the breaker panel since the unit has concrete floors and ceilings .
Conduit or cable ?

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Old 05-19-2009, 02:04 PM   #3
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Re: Microwave Circut


220 is right on. Also,If you read the installation instructions of that microwave it will state that in big letters that it should be wired to its own dedicated circuit. But I see more of them on with other appliances all the time, just like room A/C's .
If it were me I would insist on a dedicated Circuit on its own than to have it on with either fridge or disposer. Take the time now to get it done right to avoid future problems. There is always a way to get a wire there even if it means conduit on the backside of the wall...............
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:37 PM   #4
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by 220/221 View Post
Code says that the built in micro must have it's own 20A circuit.

The refer is likely on with the counter top receps circuit. Refer + micro = coffee maker = tripped breaker.

If the refer is for some reason on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, you will be OK amps wise but still not to code.



If the refer is for some reason on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, use it for the micro and tap off the kit recep circuit to refeed the refer.





Conduit or cable ?
ding ding ding the correct answer is in red

Whoever said run a conduit on the back side of the wall remember this is a condo probably a highrise and the back side of the wall is probably the neighbors kitchen.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:23 PM   #5
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Re: Microwave Circut


210.23 (A)(2)

(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of
the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-
and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in
place, or both, are also supplied.

So what that's saying is that if the microwave is say 1100 watts, that calculates to 9.1 amps at 120 volts. That could definitely be on with the refrigerator circuit.

But is it a good design that'll never get a callback?

Most likely NOT.

Last edited by Magnettica; 05-19-2009 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:26 PM   #6
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica View Post
210.23 (A)(2)

(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than
luminaires (lighting fixtures), shall not exceed 50 percent of
the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-
and-plug-connected utilization equipment not fastened in
place, or both, are also supplied.
So its legal as long as it only draws 50 percent of the amp rating of the circuit?
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:32 PM   #7
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyboy View Post
So its legal as long as it only draws 50 percent of the amp rating of the circuit?
The microwave is legal, correct.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:34 PM   #8
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Re: Microwave Circut


Btw, welcome to CT. What part of NJ are u from?
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:34 PM   #9
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica View Post
The microwave is legal, correct.
I thought that was the case, was just clarifying. Thanks
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:35 PM   #10
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Re: Microwave Circut


Mag has the requirements dead on.

New construction I prefer to run a dedicated circuit to microwave and refrigerator, in addition to the required minimum 2 small appliance circuits.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:43 PM   #11
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Re: Microwave Circut


Thanks guys ... good info there . It is an old hi rise buiding built in the mid 70's . The electrical feeds I saw when some of the drywall was removed were conduit coming out of the concrete ceiling . However the microwave wall is against the adjoining unit and in that space the wires are the old metal clad stuff .
I am going insist that he tells the owner that what he is doing is not up to code . Thanks again for the info . I didn't think what he was doing was correct BUT he is the expert so I didn't want to run my mouth without being sure .
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:48 PM   #12
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Re: Microwave Circut


and don't use romex either
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:44 PM   #13
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by TxElectrician View Post
Mag has the requirements dead on.

New construction I prefer to run a dedicated circuit to microwave and refrigerator, in addition to the required minimum 2 small appliance circuits.
true
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Old 05-19-2009, 07:50 PM   #14
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Re: Microwave Circut


we did a job early 90's where they poured a floor a day three stories and we ran smurf with some kind of connectors for concrete but we taped all boxes and connections because concrete will get where you dont want it any way you could add or subtract circuits at will with this wish i could remeber that system name
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:43 AM   #15
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by naptown CR View Post
ding ding ding the correct answer is in red

Whoever said run a conduit on the back side of the wall remember this is a condo probably a highrise and the back side of the wall is probably the neighbors kitchen.
I said this just to use it as an example, that it can be done somehow & should be done!!
There is some mis-information here in these replies.
You cannot just take the appliance tag ratings & say one circuit will handle it & you should be fine????. Those are just the running currents stated. You Must figure in the Starting currents especially the Fridge !!! There are also defrost heaters in them.
Why take the chance?? What would you do if it were your own kitchen?

Last edited by mrmike; 05-20-2009 at 06:53 AM.
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Old 05-20-2009, 06:54 AM   #16
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Re: Microwave Circut


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmike View Post
I said this just to use it as an example, that it can be done somehow & should be done!!
There is some mis-information here in these replies.
You cannot just take the appliance tag ratings & say one cicuit will handle it & you should be fine????. Those are just the running currents stated. You Must figure in the Starting currents especially the Fridge !!! There are also defrost heaters in them.
Why take the chance?? What would you do if it were your own kitchen?
what?? so what do you do take the fridge nameplate and multiply x 125%
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Old 05-20-2009, 07:15 AM   #17
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Re: Microwave Circut


The instructions for the microwave will call for a dedicated circuit as others have pointed out.

To play games trying to get it to work is not worth it, and would still be a code violation. Is this the type of work you want to be known for doing?
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:54 PM   #18
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Re: Microwave Circut


Speaking of dedicated circuits... how many of you are running 20 amp homeruns for kitchen hood exhausts?

Some of those require their own dedicated circuit too.
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Old 05-21-2009, 06:07 AM   #19
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Re: Microwave Circut


You must be talking about the commercial type hoods that many HOs are putting in. I have done a few of those. When you have done them, which trade does the install?
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Old 05-21-2009, 10:43 PM   #20
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Re: Microwave Circut


We are required to.....if it's plugged in I think.

I believe the reasoning is that someone will likely change it to a micro/vent in the future.

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