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GFCI Question

 
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:18 AM   #21
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Re: GFCI Question


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Taking a test and getting a piece of paper GUARANTEES NOTHING.
No guarantee, but it gives a reasonable likelihood that the person has mastered a subject.

If the test taker gets 100% it probably means that he or she knows at least what was tested.

If the test taker gets 0% it may mean that he or she knows even less than what was tested, if that's possible.

Therefore, the best tests hardly ever show 0 or 100.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:33 AM   #22
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Re: GFCI Question


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No guarantee, but it gives a reasonable likelihood that the person has mastered a subject.

If the test taker gets 100% it probably means that he or she knows at least what was tested.

If the test taker gets 0% it may mean that he or she knows even less than what was tested, if that's possible.

Therefore, the best tests hardly ever show 0 or 100.
Not the point. People are lazy, greedy and dumb. They also may have book smarts but no common sense. There is a million reasons not to trust a piece of paper.

If it were universal then Chicago wouldn't feel the need to have there own test?
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:12 PM   #23
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Re: GFCI Question


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Not the point.
People are lazy, greedy and dumb.
They also may have book smarts but no common sense. There is a million reasons not to trust a piece of paper.

If it were universal then Chicago wouldn't feel the need to have there own test?
Chicago. . .?

You have made it the point by questioning the value of a test.

Lazy, etc., is common knowledge so there is no info in either statement.

As to this particular piece of paper, I hate to quote any politician, but - "trust but verify", which statement in itself seems to be a contradiction.

Your worldview seems to lack shades of grey but I must admit that a black/white outlook is easier.
Staying in the test-taking theme, your tests show nothing other 100% or 0%?

BTW, my Tricorder is picking up the logical fallacy known as The Straw Man argument.

Last edited by GettingBy; 06-22-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:53 PM   #24
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Re: GFCI Question


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Chicago. . .?

You have made it the point by questioning the value of a test.

Lazy, etc., is common knowledge so there is no info in either statement.

As to this particular piece of paper, I hate to quote any politician, but - "trust but verify", which statement in itself seems to be a contradiction.

Your worldview seems to lack shades of grey but I must admit that a black/white outlook is easier.
Staying in the test-taking theme, your tests show nothing other 100% or 0%?

BTW, my Tricorder is picking up the logical fallacy known as The Straw Man argument.
I have presented to false subject to knock over.

My statement is a piece of papers is meaningless in relation to quality or accuracy of actual work. The test only qualifies head knowledge. It is not a substitute for experience, nor does it quantify ability and execution. And one must only pass the test, not ace it. Therefore it's logical to conclude there are areas that they are not fully versed.

Also Chicago has one of the hardest tests in the country, but there are several schools that offer classes to help you pass. It reminds me of the practice schools are getting into. They have to give children standardized testing so they begin to teach towards the test. These schools and classes teach you how to pass the test, not actually learn the material.

I also base my opinion on experience. I was a low voltage contractor for 6 years. My business partner was in the process to get his license when I had him buy me out. I have worked on union and non union sites all over Chicago (Northside, Southside, Bronzville, Lincoln Park, Downtown and the near suburbs). I have seen licensed plumbers, electricians and HVAC contractors hack the crap out of their work.

I've also seen guys working under other guys license do some pretty darn good work. Never took a test and didn't own a piece of paper.

I am a pretty black and white guy. I have yet to see a shade of gray that was true. What would that look like to you? Either a guy knows his stuff and does a good job or they don't. There is no "it will do" in my world.
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Old 06-23-2015, 01:16 PM   #25
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Re: GFCI Question


My statement is a piece of papers is meaningless in relation to quality or accuracy of actual work. The test only qualifies head knowledge. It is not a substitute for experience, nor does it quantify ability and execution. And one must only pass the test, not ace it. Therefore it's logical to conclude there are areas that they are not fully versed.
>Tests are necessarily a short term substitute or sample for long-term observation.
I suppose the unstated assumption is that head knowledge is meaningfully correlated with occupational success, just like the SAT aims to predict later outcomes.

These schools and classes teach you how to pass the test, not actually learn the material.
>Unfortunately, teaching to the test is becoming common.

I have seen licensed plumbers, electricians and HVAC contractors hack the crap out of their work.
>Because? Drugs, indifference, time pressure, incompetence, revenge, ? To pick out these factors you'd need a psych test in addition to an academic achievement test.

I've also seen guys working under other guys license do some pretty darn good work. Never took a test and didn't own a piece of paper.
>And when you flip a coin sometimes it come up heads.

I am a pretty black and white guy. I have yet to see a shade of gray that was true. What would that look like to you? Either a guy knows his stuff and does a good job or they don't. There is no "it will do" in my world.
>The shades of gray fill in meaningful details that are otherwise lost.
Your method may work for you, or it doesn't and you don't realize it. Sitting here I can't say either way but I am now regretting my black/white view of the world.
Does a black & white film convey as much info to you as a color film?

Thanks for your facts & opinions.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:09 PM   #26
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Re: GFCI Question


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Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
My statement is a piece of papers is meaningless in relation to quality or accuracy of actual work. The test only qualifies head knowledge. It is not a substitute for experience, nor does it quantify ability and execution. And one must only pass the test, not ace it. Therefore it's logical to conclude there are areas that they are not fully versed.
>Tests are necessarily a short term substitute or sample for long-term observation.
I suppose the unstated assumption is that head knowledge is meaningfully correlated with occupational success, just like the SAT aims to predict later outcomes.

These schools and classes teach you how to pass the test, not actually learn the material.
>Unfortunately, teaching to the test is becoming common.

I have seen licensed plumbers, electricians and HVAC contractors hack the crap out of their work.
>Because? Drugs, indifference, time pressure, incompetence, revenge, ? To pick out these factors you'd need a psych test in addition to an academic achievement test.

I've also seen guys working under other guys license do some pretty darn good work. Never took a test and didn't own a piece of paper.
>And when you flip a coin sometimes it come up heads.

I am a pretty black and white guy. I have yet to see a shade of gray that was true. What would that look like to you? Either a guy knows his stuff and does a good job or they don't. There is no "it will do" in my world.
>The shades of gray fill in meaningful details that are otherwise lost.
Your method may work for you, or it doesn't and you don't realize it. Sitting here I can't say either way but I am now regretting my black/white view of the world.
Does a black & white film convey as much info to you as a color film?

Thanks for your facts & opinions.
The question remains what is gray. Give me an example of gray.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:53 PM   #27
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Re: GFCI Question


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Haven't been here for quite awhile. I have this issue I cant figure out.
It is a kitchen. There are 3 gfcis on the backsplash. Whenever they plug in the coffee grinder it pops one of the gfcis. Changed coffee grinders same issue. Not always the same gfci either. Nothing else plugged in except a coffee pot that is off. Have also changed coffee pots since the problem has been lurking. How can I trouble shoot this one?

plug the grinders in another gfi protected circuit in the home. That would be my first test, R/O leaking grinders
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Old 06-23-2015, 07:54 PM   #28
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Re: GFCI Question


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The question remains what is gray. Give me an example of gray.
I'll try.
How 'bout people who have good and bad qualities?
There was a Kung Fu episode about this. Equal numbers of people said good and bad things about some guy who was found hanged.

I guess gray is not
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Manichaeism
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism

There's also this saying about if only the birds who sung the best would sing, the forest would be a quiet place.

Maybe you should ask someone who hasn't spent most of their life in a black & white world (me).
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Old 06-23-2015, 09:12 PM   #29
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Re: GFCI Question


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I'll try.
How 'bout people who have good and bad qualities?
There was a Kung Fu episode about this. Equal numbers of people said good and bad things about some guy who was found hanged.

I guess gray is not
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Manichaeism
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism

There's also this saying about if only the birds who sung the best would sing, the forest would be a quiet place.

Maybe you should ask someone who hasn't spent most of their life in a black & white world (me).
Definitions from an open source online encyclopedia just aren't going to cut it. I have been to all the classes and they don't impress me.

We are also not speaking of subjective subjects. Opinions are still based on instances and examples that we feel either fall into two categories, right and wrong. So the best birds are in the ear of the beholder. However with that said, notes are notes. You either hit them or you don't. See black and white.

Still waiting for an example that is in context with our conversation.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:06 PM   #30
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Re: GFCI Question


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Definitions from an open source online encyclopedia just aren't going to cut it. I have been to all the classes and they don't impress me.

We are also not speaking of subjective subjects. Opinions are still based on instances and examples that we feel either fall into two categories, right and wrong. So the best birds are in the ear of the beholder. However with that said, notes are notes. You either hit them or you don't. See black and white.

Still waiting for an example that is in context with our conversation.
This isn't working but I am learning a lot about you from your answers. Will be back with another approach, more to hone my writing skills than to settle this. Thank you for your patience. Stay tuned.
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Old 06-24-2015, 12:42 PM   #31
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Re: GFCI Question


So you are saying its a gray area.
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Old 06-24-2015, 02:47 PM   #32
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Re: GFCI Question


Another thread derailed, great job.
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Old 06-24-2015, 03:05 PM   #33
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Re: GFCI Question


The conversation has certainly ceased to have any relevance to the OP, or electrical work.

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