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GFCI Question

 
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Old 06-13-2015, 09:40 PM   #1
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GFCI Question


Haven't been here for quite awhile. I have this issue I cant figure out.
It is a kitchen. There are 3 gfcis on the backsplash. Whenever they plug in the coffee grinder it pops one of the gfcis. Changed coffee grinders same issue. Not always the same gfci either. Nothing else plugged in except a coffee pot that is off. Have also changed coffee pots since the problem has been lurking. How can I trouble shoot this one?
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:02 PM   #2
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Re: GFCI Question


My first question would be why are there three GFCI's? Depending on how they'e wired, they can sometimes interact to provide a really confusing set of symptoms. Sort it out so there is only one GFCI per circuit, for starters.

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Old 06-13-2015, 11:43 PM   #3
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Re: GFCI Question


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My first question would be why are there three GFCI's? Depending on how they'e wired, they can sometimes interact to provide a really confusing set of symptoms. Sort it out so there is only one GFCI per circuit, for starters.
Or at least make sure the GFIs are wired independently/in parallel, not off each others' load terminals.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:00 PM   #4
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Re: GFCI Question


tell the customer it's a :
Ground Fault COFFEE Interrupter., seems to work as it should.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:30 PM   #5
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Re: GFCI Question


3 gfcis on the backsplash.
>Could be wired in cascade. A DVM and a 10A load may be able to confirm this. For sure a 4-1/2 digit DVM can.
http://www.bkprecision.com/products/...ized-case.html
You use the load and meter as a milliohmmeter.

Whenever they plug in the coffee grinder it pops one of the gfcis. Changed coffee grinders same issue.
>Check the ground lead of each grinder with an AC milliammeter in series with a 1/32A fuse.

Not always the same gfci either.
>See 'cascade'.

Nothing else plugged in except a coffee pot that is off.
>See 'AC milliammeter' above but first check for DC continuity with any DVM.

How quickly it pops gives you some measure of the how bad the ground fault is, if there is one.

You may need a capacitance meter to fully thrash this problem out. The motor-windings-to-housing capacitance may be doing this.

We have a hair dryer with a GFCI plug. Occasionally the wall GFCI trips, never the plug GFCI.
No hope of troubleshooting this intermittent problem without a data logger.

Last edited by GettingBy; 06-14-2015 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015, 03:43 PM   #6
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Re: GFCI Question


Does anything else pop them?

Are the outlets backstabbed? If so, pigtail and use the screws.

Make sure that the are wired properly and then pull all of them off but the first one. Plug in and see if it trips. If it does, replace. If it persists it's either the way the grinder is wired the wiring of before it hits the outlets all together. If it doesn't trip add the next outlet and then test again. Eliminate each device.
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Old 06-14-2015, 04:58 PM   #7
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Re: GFCI Question


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Haven't been here for quite awhile. I have this issue I cant figure out.
It is a kitchen. There are 3 gfcis on the backsplash. Whenever they plug in the coffee grinder it pops one of the gfcis. Changed coffee grinders same issue. Not always the same gfci either. Nothing else plugged in except a coffee pot that is off. Have also changed coffee pots since the problem has been lurking. How can I trouble shoot this one?
Have you tried the gfci on a different circuit that has gfci protection?

If there are 3 gfci's on one circuit I suspect that each gfci is feeding the other thru the load. Although this should not be an issue I would disconnect the load from the first gfci on the circuit and see if the issue disappears
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Old 06-14-2015, 08:25 PM   #8
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Re: GFCI Question


Two grinders and three outlets gives you six tests. With other motor loads there are more tests.
If you get contradictory results it's time to break out a meter.
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Old 06-17-2015, 01:21 PM   #9
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Re: GFCI Question


You could do a bunch of convoluted $#!t that doesn't make sense, involving an oscilloscope and a monkey circumciser, or you could just do as Tin and TNT suggested.

Pull the GFCI's and make sure they are wired properly, then eliminate them until you only have one.

I've seen them where the load side neutral was touching the ground, so it would stay powered up until a load, any load, was plugged in, then it would trip.


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Old 06-17-2015, 04:20 PM   #10
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Re: GFCI Question


Good advice above me....

(And not trying to be a smarta$$)...
But if your asking about how to fix electric problems in a client's house,
Why do you want to risk the liability? Why not call a sparky?
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:55 PM   #11
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Re: GFCI Question


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Why do you want to risk the liability? Why not call a sparky?
I'd say MinConst estimated the potential profit and the liability, and wants to go for it.

Going on this forum, he is sort of calling a Sparky.

I'd use non-intrusive methods where you don't open boxes & start pulling out wires, in my own house and others.


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Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
involving an oscilloscope and a monkey circumciser
The days of breaker points are gone. Sorry.

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Old 06-21-2015, 08:55 PM   #12
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Re: GFCI Question


I'm not trying to be an a-hole but you should probably call a licensed electrician. You are dealing with electricity and water. It can be very dangerous if not done correctly. How would you feel if a kid got electrocuted?
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:01 PM   #13
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Re: GFCI Question


How does a piece of paper guarantee a kid isn't going to get electrocuted? This is a simple issue that any handyman should be able to resolve.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:07 PM   #14
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Re: GFCI Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
You could do a bunch of convoluted $#!t that doesn't make sense, involving an oscilloscope and a monkey circumciser, or you could just do as Tin and TNT suggested.



Pull the GFCI's and make sure they are wired properly, then eliminate them until you only have one.



I've seen them where the load side neutral was touching the ground, so it would stay powered up until a load, any load, was plugged in, then it would trip.





Delta

Holy sh*t that was funny. And right on point.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:16 PM   #15
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Re: GFCI Question


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How does a piece of paper guarantee a kid isn't going to get electrocuted? This is a simple issue that any handyman should be able to resolve.
A license is more than just a piece of paper my friend. They don't give those out to just anybody.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:45 PM   #16
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Re: GFCI Question


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A license is more than just a piece of paper my friend. They don't give those out to just anybody.
Keep telling yourself that. It guarantees ZERO. I've seen a lot of hack work from licensed electricians, plumbers and many other contractors. And I have seen perfection from guys that don't have one.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:54 PM   #17
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Re: GFCI Question


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Keep telling yourself that.
Keep telling myself what? You think that license is easy to get? Go take the Master's test. Tell us how you did.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:57 PM   #18
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Re: GFCI Question


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Keep telling myself what? You think that license is easy to get? Go take the Master's test. Tell us how you did.
Keep telling yourself that a test and a piece of paper mean anything. Keep holding on to that notion. I trust results, not ink and paper.

Taking a test and getting a piece of paper GUARANTEES NOTHING. You are stuck on this test and a piece of paper as if it ensures a job well done or even done to code.

And I am well aware of what it takes in this state to get one, more than you think. Like I said, I have seen plenty of licensed hacks.
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Old 06-22-2015, 07:08 AM   #19
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Re: GFCI Question


Not electrician, but I know if its improperly connected they will trip. There is a line and load connectors. Make sure that the power supply is connected to the line connectors and wires going to other receptacles connected to the load connectors.

If everything is wired the right way, like others said, there could be a short along the way. something is making it trip, or the receptacle itself could be bad.

Good luck
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Old 06-22-2015, 09:13 AM   #20
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Re: GFCI Question


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How would you feel if a kid got electrocuted?
The problem is they are tripping, possibly without reason, not that they're not tripping with reason.
It's a false positive, not a false negative.

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