Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both - Electrical - Contractor Talk

Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 04-07-2011, 11:50 AM   #1
Pro
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Trade: Engineer & Ret. GC
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N 44 18 43.60 W 73 40 55.76
Posts: 902
Rewards Points: 500

Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


In the rendering shown below of a bedroom, note the two can lights, one in the soffit near the door to the R, the other in the small alcove recess with ceiling dropped even lower.

We want the one to the R to be a 4" line-voltage can, and we will lamp it with something small, maybe a 35W PAR14 halogen. In the alcove, the plan is to use an elegant little beauty from Prima Lighting, the 8401, shown in the clip from its cut sheet. Lamp is a 35W MR16 and the fixture is supplied with 12V. Carefully cut a hole in the drywall ceiling, and the 8401 snaps right into it.

One way to power the 12V 8401 is to mount a single recep in the wall in the closet, right behind the alcove, and use a plug-in xformer like the one shown, switch the recep, and run the 12V line back into the wall, then right to the 8401.

What might be a better way?

And how will the two lights react to being controlled by a single dimmer switch? See any issues?
Attached Thumbnails
Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-underdormerbedroomrender.jpg   Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-plug-in_75w_xformer.png   Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-prima_8401_mini_can.png  
UpNorth is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 04-07-2011, 12:05 PM   #2
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 11,707
Rewards Points: 10,982

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Putting a receptacle on a dimmer is verboten.

Lo-volt lights usually cannot be dimmed with a standard dimmer.

Advertisement

__________________
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am here.
480sparky is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 12:20 PM   #3
Pro
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Trade: Engineer & Ret. GC
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N 44 18 43.60 W 73 40 55.76
Posts: 902
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Thanks, 480. Shoulda checked that.

OK, I just looked at what the guys did when they wired my xformers, which are in a closet right around the corner from my desk. They are mounted onto a board, which is screwed through the drywall into studs, and the 120 Romex is coming right through a hole in the drywall to the xformers, and the 12V is going right out and back in the wall.

So, we do the same here, right? And if the right dimmer switch is used, it can control both lights, the 4" 120V can and the little Prima 12V?

Here's a page snip from one of the xformer catalogs.
Attached Thumbnails
Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-hardwired_12v_xformer_75w.png  
UpNorth is offline  
   
 
Old 04-07-2011, 12:25 PM   #4
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 11,707
Rewards Points: 10,982

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Why not just use a 120v fixture?
__________________
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am here.
480sparky is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 12:59 PM   #5
Pro
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Trade: Engineer & Ret. GC
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N 44 18 43.60 W 73 40 55.76
Posts: 902
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Nothing I can imagine in 120V can come close to the lighting effect of this little 8401 with a 35W MR16 narrow spot lamp. Do you know of anything? The fixture can be had for about $30 and a xformer for maybe $13, and that is all that is needed, 'cept for the lamp.

I've used them before. Here are the renders I did of the arrangement, over and in the flanking thru-alcoves around a see-thru fireplace. Photos shown of the actual completion. Not my choice for tile or accessories or junk.
Attached Thumbnails
Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-fireplace-away-room-side-s.jpg   Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-camera-unload-nov-06-048.jpg   Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-camera-unload-nov-06-096.jpg   Different can lights, 12V wiring, dimmer switch for both-fireplace-living-room-side-s.jpg  
UpNorth is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 01:02 PM   #6
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 11,707
Rewards Points: 10,982

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


MR 16s are available in 120v lamps as well. You need to find a can & trim that matches what you're looking for.
__________________
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am here.
480sparky is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 01:13 PM   #7
Pro
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Trade: Engineer & Ret. GC
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N 44 18 43.60 W 73 40 55.76
Posts: 902
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


I know that, but they are going to be 4" cans (larger than the 8401) w/ onboard xformer, and the housing alone will cost what two 8401s cost. Maybe three times. Then there is the trim.

I've these kinds of 4" cans mixed on same switch w/ 120V sconces right upstairs, and dimmed. So, I figure like the dummy I am, that hey, why not, can't I have a dimmer switch for what I am proposing, this mix of a line-driven can and one that has a small 12V xformer in the line?
UpNorth is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 02:10 PM   #8
I own stock in FotoMat!
 
480sparky's Avatar
 
Trade: 132 on Bush, I've got him at gunpoint!
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Iowa
Posts: 11,707
Rewards Points: 10,982

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Reducing the voltage applied to a transformer may cause it to simply 'drop out' on the output side. In other words, you reduce the volage to 95 volts, and the 120v lamp dims, and the 12v just goes out.

Have you tried all-out lighting supply stores?
__________________
Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am here.
480sparky is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 02:27 PM   #9
Pro
 
Dierte's Avatar
 
Trade: Commercial Electrician
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 150
Rewards Points: 83

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


Why not get a lightolier can light? They are available w/ built in 12v xfmr's for mr16. I don't know what dimmer you can buy off the shelf to use with them. The one's I installed and repair are run off a Marlin control system.
Dierte is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 03:18 PM   #10
Pro
 
UpNorth's Avatar
 
Trade: Engineer & Ret. GC
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N 44 18 43.60 W 73 40 55.76
Posts: 902
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


We'll study this some more, to see what kinds of xformers can be paired with what kinds of dimmers to make this work. The installation shown in photos above, had one small 150W transformer powering all four of the 8401 fixtures (20W MR16 lamps in each), and was dimmed using a Lutron Grafik Eye master controller, as part of a multi-circuit lighting scheme.
UpNorth is offline  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:41 PM   #11
Pro
 
JBrzoz00's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrician
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 159
Rewards Points: 129

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


I think WAC makes a very small low volt can.
JBrzoz00 is offline  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:26 AM   #12
Registered User
 
lightguy's Avatar
 
Trade: Lighting
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 15
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Different Can Lights, 12V Wiring, Dimmer Switch For Both


You could use these two cans together on one ELV dimmer. Probably 25% more expensive though.

CL1220TL - 2 1/2" depth 120V input (onboard transformer) with Philips 20W GU5.3 IR lamp. 36 or 8 degree

SL12050TL - 3 1/2" depth 120V input with 50W GU10

Trims will be identical.

Advertisement

lightguy is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problem with 12V halogen lights KMac Low Voltage 2 07-10-2010 09:16 AM
Using a Motion Detector with a Dimmer? HandyMensch Electrical 6 02-06-2009 02:45 PM
Anyone else seen a magnetic field issue caused by 3-way switch wiring? Electric_Light Electrical 12 01-15-2009 03:38 PM
Dimmer switch question MwCar Electrical 34 01-14-2009 05:27 PM
Dimmer switch blowing out glock40 Electrical 4 03-13-2006 07:54 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?