AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet? - Electrical - Contractor Talk

AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?

 
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Old 02-15-2019, 11:57 AM   #1
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AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Have any of you electricians ever had to put both AFCI and GFCI protection for the same outlets?

I have this plan checker that seems to want both AFCI and GFCI on the kitchen outlets and the bath outlets. This seems incredible to me.

I get these corrections that show in red an AFCI call-out, written by the plan checker, next to where I show my GFCI call-outs. I am not sure if he wants me to change the GFCI to AFCI or to make the outlets both.

Normally I would call up the plan checker and see if I am somehow misunderstanding what he wants or if he is simply retarded. But I can't in this case as I am not the primary designer on this job.

Andy.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:01 PM   #2
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
.......I have this plan checker that seems to want both AFCI and GFCI on the kitchen outlets and the bath outlets. This seems incredible to me..........
It's required now.

210.8(A)(1) and (6), 210.12(A).

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Old 02-15-2019, 12:09 PM   #3
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Yep. Required.

AFCI breaker, and GFCI outlet feeding downstream receptacles is how I do it.

I think there are some combo breakers. I'll have to try and find them. I'll post if I do.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:11 PM   #4
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Here ya go.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Siemens-...0DFP/205488018
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:12 PM   #5
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Give the NFPA (National Forest Prevention Association) enough time, we'll need GFCI, AFCI, RFCI, WFCI, BFCI, PFCI, QFCI, MFCI, LFCI, VFCI, 4FCI, @FCI and ¢FCI protection everywhere. Even on the doorbell and your TV's remote.
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Last edited by 480sparky; 02-15-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:13 PM   #6
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Here is the one I meant to post.

90% of the panel I work in use BR-style breakers.


https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-BR...20CS/303770425
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:32 PM   #7
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Holy crap!

Now the code is for GFCI & AFCI?!

Is that just California or National?

This marks the first time I have ever been called on such a thing.

Now I have to look at myself as the retarded one.

Andy.
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Old 02-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #8
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


It's national, except it's not national where it hasn't been adopted yet.

PA is still on the 2008 code, so you could come here to do your electrical layouts.
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:00 PM   #9
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Holy crap!

Now the code is for GFCI & AFCI?!

Is that just California or National?

This marks the first time I have ever been called on such a thing.

Now I have to look at myself as the retarded one.

Andy.
AFCI and GFCI only in areas that require the GFCI. Most other areas, AFCI only.

Tom
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Old 02-15-2019, 07:15 PM   #10
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Holy crap!

Now the code is for GFCI & AFCI?!

Is that just California or National?

This marks the first time I have ever been called on such a thing.

Now I have to look at myself as the retarded one.

Andy.
NFPA. But Commiefornia is a whole other country.
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:27 PM   #11
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ScipioAfricanus View Post
Holy crap!

Now the code is for GFCI & AFCI?!

Is that just California or National?

This marks the first time I have ever been called on such a thing.

Now I have to look at myself as the retarded one.

Andy.
It's nuts, every year they come out with more and more s^*t
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Old 02-15-2019, 08:41 PM   #12
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Originally Posted by greg24k View Post
It's nuts, every year they come out with more and more expensive s^*t the manufacturers end up getting required
Fify.
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Old 02-15-2019, 09:58 PM   #13
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


It would be nice if the manufacturers had all the bugs worked out of these products PRIOR to us being required to use them as well.

On my last 4 additions and one new house (on 2017 NEC) I had to put up signs to use only specified temporary receptacles I had provided for construction tools since the AFCI's trip if you look at them wrong-especially the GF and AF combos. Nobody followed that ever. Calls every day complaining that "my" circuits kept tripping for no reason.

I've now just recently starting loading the panel with standard junk breakers with a big note to the rough inspector that "yes these will be AFCI/GFCI breakers when you do your final". I had to start putting the note for the inspector after the first one failed me on rough since I didn't have AFCI's and GFCI's in the panel yet.

This is not good for legitimate contractors who have to skyrocket their prices like I've had to the late last year.

Next door though the contractors who can't pull permits will continue to use lamp cord for can lights.

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Old 02-15-2019, 11:54 PM   #14
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Originally Posted by rselectric1 View Post
It would be nice if the manufacturers had all the bugs worked out of these products PRIOR to us being required to use them as well.

On my last 4 additions and one new house (on 2017 NEC) I had to put up signs to use only specified temporary receptacles I had provided for construction tools since the AFCI's trip if you look at them wrong-especially the GF and AF combos. Nobody followed that ever. Calls every day complaining that "my" circuits kept tripping for no reason.

I've now just recently starting loading the panel with standard junk breakers with a big note to the rough inspector that "yes these will be AFCI/GFCI breakers when you do your final". I had to start putting the note for the inspector after the first one failed me on rough since I didn't have AFCI's and GFCI's in the panel yet.

This is not good for legitimate contractors who have to skyrocket their prices like I've had to the late last year.

Next door though the contractors who can't pull permits will continue to use lamp cord for can lights.

Why are you energizing general house circuits during rough?
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:46 AM   #15
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Why are you energizing general house circuits during rough?
Lighting and temporary receptacles only.
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Old 02-16-2019, 07:56 AM   #16
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


Breakers finally getting better? Why not just use a combo AFCI/GFCI outlet that feeds all the downstream ones per circuit?
The only thing not to forget is to make sure they are Tamper Resistant also...
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:26 AM   #17
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Lighting and temporary receptacles only.
So you're temping receptacle and lighting circuits with AFCI breakers?
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:28 AM   #18
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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So you're temping receptacle and lighting circuits with AFCI breakers?
I USED to. Not anymore.
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:47 AM   #19
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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Fify.
Where it came from
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Old 02-16-2019, 08:53 AM   #20
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Re: AFCI & GFCI On Same Outlet?


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I USED to. Not anymore.
Look into Leviton panels. Their panels have permanent terminals for ALL the branch circuit wiring that are not on the breakers. The breakers just stab in. You can push in a 'standard' breaker for construction, then swap it out in seconds during trim with a high-$ breaker. No re-wiring needed.

https://www.leviton.com/en/products/...l/load-centers

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