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Usg Screw Buttons ??

 
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Old 03-05-2019, 04:06 AM   #1
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Usg Screw Buttons ??


My company has recently having problems with screw buttons appearing in the middle of the sheets. The screws aren't usually popped but a raised surface, which can appear anywhere from a few days to a few months after sheeting and setting . All the issues involve USG Boral ( Australia's USG ) board and timber framed construction . It doesn't happen on homes with metal ceiling battens or furring channel !

I've read some studies ( by USG ) that have blamed the variable curing times for low VOC water based adhesives in the US. . And I've also read some threads on similar problems that point to the board itself . We take the time to sheet everything to the manufacturers specs and mainly do upmarket work / homes as a result . Does anyone have any more information on this issue?

Cheers, Much appreciated . Nate
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Old 03-05-2019, 07:51 AM   #2
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Over-driven screws.

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Old 03-05-2019, 10:12 AM   #3
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Johnson View Post
Over-driven screws.
That would make bumps appear later?
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:02 AM   #4
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Timber drying out would be my usual suspect. I've also seen it when existing dry wood picked up a lot of moisture after finishing, then dried again.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:03 AM   #5
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
That would make bumps appear later?
That's what makes the defect look like a button.
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Old 03-05-2019, 08:24 PM   #6
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


I had a drywall hanger who hangs for a particular finisher who bitches like a bitchy little old bitty whenever he hits an under driven screw while muddling so the hanger drives the screws extra deep for him. It always ends with hundreds of so-called drywall “buttons” just about in time to close on the house. Not a problem with any other drywall crew.

Don’t know if that’s your problem or not.


Pull a screw and make sure they’re using the correct ones.

Switch to foam gun glue. Great stuff or whatever is available in your area.

Check the screw set depth before mud.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:14 PM   #7
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Its a moisture issue. Big problem in the winter months with new homes without sufficient heating. Wet frame is every home really. But a home full of sheetrock thats damp before its even hung can cause horrible things to happen. After that prime goes over that wet board it seals up the moisture .

Some bulders dont want reasons why it happens till it happens . But most already know.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:28 PM   #8
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


I've been in huge homes where the board wasn't glued and all the field screws were popped. I'm not saying glue can't cause a issue . It can if its over glued. Too much glue can draw back during the cure causing the field screws to pop.
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Old 03-05-2019, 09:37 PM   #9
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktop View Post
I've been in huge homes where the board wasn't glued and all the field screws were popped. I'm not saying glue can't cause a issue . It can if its over glued. Too much glue can draw back during the cure causing the field screws to pop.
Is the main reason for glue to avoid pops?
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:17 PM   #10
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


I'd say moisture too. They've adopted a requirement here to dry the structure to a certain reading before cover. A good idea I think.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:31 PM   #11
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


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I'd say moisture too. They've adopted a requirement here to dry the structure to a certain reading before cover. A good idea I think.
school construction, most high end custom & some commercial, framing lumber moisture content is in the specs prior to cover.
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Old 03-05-2019, 11:49 PM   #12
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
school construction, most high end custom & some commercial, framing lumber moisture content is in the specs prior to cover.
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/bds/article/214966
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Old 03-06-2019, 07:03 AM   #13
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by blacktop View Post
. I'm not saying glue can't cause a issue . It can if its over glued. Too much glue can draw back during the cure causing the field screws to pop.
Iíve had houses soaking wet with frozen lumber that the guys I mentioned above didnít do and there were almost no pops. Iíve had jobs done in all different seasons that they did do that weíre totally dried out before hanging and they still popped all over. The hanger does use a lot of glue. Iíd say about 8 cases per 10,000 feet.

If the glue is the problem do you think using this stuff would help?
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:38 AM   #14
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


What length screws are you using?
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Old 03-06-2019, 08:57 AM   #15
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJames View Post
Is the main reason for glue to avoid pops?
Glue elimanates fastners. The less screws in the feild the better the finish and less chance of pops.
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Last edited by blacktop; 03-06-2019 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:40 AM   #16
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Yep. I've seen houses and even large apartment complexes closed up when wet. We worked on one where they used plastic and it was so bad that the insulation was as wet as a sponge from wet lumber.

From what I remember, that building had to be torn down and rebuilt it was so bad.

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Old 03-09-2019, 01:54 PM   #17
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dozier123 View Post
My company has recently having problems with screw buttons appearing in the middle of the sheets. ...It doesn't happen on homes with metal ceiling battens or furring channel
Seems that's what is key here.

And this is ceilings only?

Myself, I wouldn't feel safe relying on glue on the horizontal.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:48 AM   #18
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


We use 32mm corse thread screws and use the one third fixing system , with glue and screws, all to Australian standards fixing to timber . We hang the board ourselves and always take the time to make sure the screws are the correct depth .

I've lost confidence in the light weight USG board thinking that it might be part of the problem. Never been a fan of it, but we're limited with our suppliers in the area . Thinking of switching board brands and just paying the extra freight though !

Glue or green timber are my other suspects . My builders that don't use carribean or slash pine - they get there timber from a different supplier - and use hoop or radiata pine, we haven't had an issue on their builds .

Also thinking of just screwing the board of at 200mm (about 8 inches ) centres on the ceiling ?? Anyone had better luck with the screw buttons doing this or is it just making more screws able to show up ?
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:36 AM   #19
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


Usually more screws would just mean more problems. The lightweight board tends to have some really weak spots that the screw will just pull though the face.

The bottom shape tells me that the screws were probably set a little on the deep side. That isn't the real problem, but it could indicate that finishers have been hitting screw heads, so the hangers just put them a little deeper. I've had that happen with lumber that was drying out. Too much moisture.

I've also had it with glue problems. Too much glue, product used, not consistently pressing the board against the stud when screwing off.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:00 AM   #20
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Re: Usg Screw Buttons ??


This could be a combination of things. Light weight board doesn't have as much pressure from the screw if the screw is a little deep. The stuff is soft, you can crush it pretty easily. Less pressure, especially if the screws are deep, maybe the glue winds up a little thicker, so there is more shrinkage. Then the wood dries some, and you have your button...

If you want to get an idea if how much your timber is shrinking, get some cutoffs from the middle of a length, and measure dimensions and dry it.

In the mean time, you can only use the shortest screws allowed and a glue that has low shrinkage. You can have the screws set more shallow, but every single screw may have to be set deeper before finishing.

If I'm working with possibly moist lumber, I'll set the screw heads perfect for finishing, then wait a few days to see how much movement I'm getting before finishing. Messes up normal scheduling.

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