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Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects

 
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Old 07-12-2010, 03:10 AM   #1
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Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


We have been using hot mud for our kitchen and bathroom remodeling and home addition projects for a while now with good luck, with the goal to hang and finish in and out in a day instead of our dinosaur age years ago when we took several short inefficient days using premixed mud but we want to increase our knowledge of finishing with recommendations from experiences finishers.

With the goal of hanging and finishing kitchens, bathrooms and additions all in one day, what is your

1. recommended brand of hot mud,
2. type of hot mud as in 20, 45, 90 minute for which layers
3. heavy or light for which layers
4. paper tape or mesh for corners and flat
5. mixing ratios for amount of water and mix
6. do you use measuring tools for mix and water
7. type of mixing method
8. container used
9. do you use a corner tool
10. other tools used
11. do you ever mix premix mud with hot like some I know and do you recommend we do this and how is it done effectively

For the last project we used 20 minute for the first coat and found that to dry too fast causing too much waste. The 45 minute seemed perfect with heavy for the first coat and lightweight for the second two coats.

We mixed in small batches without measuring tools for mix ratio using a corner tool for corners mesh on the flat and paper in the corners and were able to sand and paint the following day as is usual for us on these types of small drywall projects.

We used the sheetrock brand and have found the brand Lowes carried last year in our area of NY State to be garbage since it did not dry in the time frame stated in the instructions.
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Old 07-12-2010, 05:53 AM   #2
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


1. recommended brand of hot mud,
2. type of hot mud as in 20, 45, 90 minute for which layers
3. heavy or light for which layers
4. paper tape or mesh for corners and flat
5. mixing ratios for amount of water and mix
6. do you use measuring tools for mix and water
7. type of mixing method
8. container used
9. do you use a corner tool
10. other tools used
11. do you ever mix premix mud with hot like some I know and do you recommend we do this and how is it done effectively

All brands vary and you have to get used to a particular brand.
Prefill holes gaps with 5-min then mesh all flats.
I normally go 20-1st coat,45-2nd,20 or 45-3rd. premix final coat.
All my layers get thin unless areas need to be bult out.
Straight-flex all angles with 45. this is done after all flats are 2 coated.
I use my mud pan to measure water, into a 5 gal. bucket. Each pan = full pan quickset mixed.
I mix with paddle in bucket. round scoop helps to get it out, stir ocassionaly to keep soft,cover bucket seems to slow it down some.

If its late in the day I'll do 3rd coat w/premix and skim/fan following morning.Sometimes i figure 2 days to hang,finish,paint on most 1 room jobs not counting trim.

Practice makes perfect.

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Old 07-21-2010, 11:08 PM   #3
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Westpac is MUCH easier hot mud to work with. Blows Sheetrock brand hot mud outta the water, much creamier & smoother IMO.
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Old 07-22-2010, 07:24 PM   #4
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Shoe View Post
1. recommended brand of hot mud,
2. type of hot mud as in 20, 45, 90 minute for which layers
3. heavy or light for which layers
4. paper tape or mesh for corners and flat
5. mixing ratios for amount of water and mix
6. do you use measuring tools for mix and water
7. type of mixing method
8. container used
9. do you use a corner tool
10. other tools used
11. do you ever mix premix mud with hot like some I know and do you recommend we do this and how is it done effectively

All brands vary and you have to get used to a particular brand.
Prefill holes gaps with 5-min then mesh all flats.
I normally go 20-1st coat,45-2nd,20 or 45-3rd. premix final coat.
All my layers get thin unless areas need to be bult out.
Straight-flex all angles with 45. this is done after all flats are 2 coated.
I use my mud pan to measure water, into a 5 gal. bucket. Each pan = full pan quickset mixed.
I mix with paddle in bucket. round scoop helps to get it out, stir ocassionaly to keep soft,cover bucket seems to slow it down some.

If its late in the day I'll do 3rd coat w/premix and skim/fan following morning.Sometimes i figure 2 days to hang,finish,paint on most 1 room jobs not counting trim.

Practice makes perfect.
I've run "hot-mud" for years doing it this way, but recently changed how I add water. I use a plastic cup (medium sized subway cup) now. It really is more accurate in putting the exact same amount in every time, also it doesn't get contaminated from the pan with old mud (that didn't get cleaned out) so you don't end up with 5min. when your mixing 20

To the poster: everyone has there own way. Just gotta keep doing it til you get it down or rotator cuff surgery, which ever comes first.
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Old 07-22-2010, 11:37 PM   #5
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


It depends on what time of the day you get started, how big the job is, how many people you have working and what their skill level is. If you start in the morning and you think you can get your first coat on in two hours. Then start out with 90 minute, when you're half way through switch to 45. Then let it set up, lightly sand, and put on your finish coat with cold mud. Use cold mud for your final coat, you get a much nicer sand with it than hot mud. It just takes some good planning, each job is different.

If you are hot mudding your first coat, then use mesh tape on your flat seams, it will be faster and you won't have to worry about blistering. I use a bucket and drill for mixing, with a hole in the lid so I can stick the mixing rod through. That's the most helpful trick I've learned for tape and mudding, that way I don't have to take a shower in drywall mud when I mix it.

Last edited by KennMacMoragh; 07-22-2010 at 11:44 PM.
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Old 07-23-2010, 06:54 AM   #6
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


I have been a drywall taper/boarder since 1978.
I myself prefer to use paper tape in corners and on flats.
I prefer to use reg boxed mud on corner beads will not crack.
sheetrock 45 is better than Durabond 90, but l only use sheetrock 45 to prefill seams.

I know here in ontario the 45 and 90 are used in sub divisions to apply tape and and 2nd and 3rd coats but l am a quality taper and quanity second.
In 30 plus years never gone back to repair any jobs, so for me l think hot mud as it is called you don't get quality work final results.

I turn down jobs that others have done but messed up, also why l would never buy a sub division home built cheap look nice but is all they are.
For many time is money and only priority, but for me quality is only way to go, last time l put add in the paper was my first year back in 1979.
I am doing jobs now for the children, grandchildren of home owners l did taping etc for more than 25-30 years ago.
To me this speaks volumes of quality verses quanity.
The above is only my opinion, but has kept me busy for 30 plus years.
Thanks
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Old 07-23-2010, 08:44 PM   #7
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Running hot mud and being good at it takes years of trial and error. Biggest mistake most guys make is putting it on too thick.

Paulie.....same size cup works for you but alls I have in the back of my truck are empty bottles. My gauge is about a third pan of water is about full pan hot mud.

Always wanted to measure and mark inside of bucket with marker for mixing full bag.
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:45 AM   #8
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Mud is mud is mud. Like I told my new guy- you can be taught about it all day long, but the only way to get your technique down is to do it.

I've been pretty efficient taping with 45min and mesh tape, finishing with bluetop premix cut with a little water and gotten pretty clean results with that. There are strong opinions about mesh vs paper, but I take the mesh most times to eliminate the bedcoat you need with paper. Nothing wrong with paper, but if you bed it wrong, it will bubble up on you. After some practice I think you should be able to do your corners without the special corner trowel. For the mix ratio I never really measured out water, just done it enough that I don't really think about it, just aimed for the consistency I wanted and adjusted for bed vs finish coat. I prefer the finish coat slightly wetter than the bed but that's just me. Mixing method = bucket + mixer + add water as needed, and do what ken said and use the bucket top with a hole in it.

Everyone has a system that works for them, you just have to find what works for you.
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Last edited by olligator; 07-24-2010 at 10:48 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 07-24-2010, 10:51 AM   #9
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1959 View Post
I have been a drywall taper/boarder since 1978.
I myself prefer to use paper tape in corners and on flats.
I prefer to use reg boxed mud on corner beads will not crack.
sheetrock 45 is better than Durabond 90, but l only use sheetrock 45 to prefill seams.

I know here in ontario the 45 and 90 are used in sub divisions to apply tape and and 2nd and 3rd coats but l am a quality taper and quanity second.
In 30 plus years never gone back to repair any jobs, so for me l think hot mud as it is called you don't get quality work final results.

I turn down jobs that others have done but messed up, also why l would never buy a sub division home built cheap look nice but is all they are.
For many time is money and only priority, but for me quality is only way to go, last time l put add in the paper was my first year back in 1979.
I am doing jobs now for the children, grandchildren of home owners l did taping etc for more than 25-30 years ago.
To me this speaks volumes of quality verses quanity.
The above is only my opinion, but has kept me busy for 30 plus years.
Thanks

What no bazooka taper crews in the tract homes in ontario??
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Old 07-24-2010, 12:48 PM   #10
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Re: Hot Mud Questions For In And Out In A Day Projects


Quote:
We have been using hot mud for our kitchen and bathroom remodeling and home addition projects for a while now with good luck, with the goal to hang and finish in and out in a day instead of our dinosaur age years ago when we took several short inefficient days using premixed mud but we want to increase our knowledge of finishing with recommendations from experiences finishers.

With the goal of hanging and finishing kitchens, bathrooms and additions all in one day, what is your
I been doing this for over ten years now. I have taken on contracts from kitchen and bath renovators. There is a good market here and I've developed a rep for knocking these things out quickly and there are many tricks and ways to go depending on the circumstances. I'll try to answer them as best I can. Just keep in mind that the amount of beads and butt joints vary. So the timed mixes can change. There is also ways to accelerate drying times, which I will get into later. Let's take your questions one at a time.


Quote:
1. recommended brand of hot mud,
I like the easy sand products. I would use the durabond to base plaster repairs but that's about it.

Quote:
2. type of hot mud as in 20, 45, 90 minute for which layers
All of the above. I might use 90 in a big kitchen and 20 in a small bath. It depends on size and amount of beads.

Quote:
3. heavy or light for which layers
Except for plaster always use light. I am a banjo taper so the tape coat is watered down. Two things here. 1) For some reason the mix sets up quicker when run though a banjo. It dries on the wall quicker than in the bucket. 2) You can put the loose mud on your hawk or pan and add plaster of paris on the hawk or pan. This way you can do multiple coats with one mix. The plaster is a good accelerator.

Quote:
4. paper tape or mesh for corners and flat
I prefer paper all around. I use mesh to fill in the blowouts and when rock meets plaster. I also use 3' rolls of mesh for this.

Quote:
5. mixing ratios for amount of water and mix
That varies as well depending on the size of the job and weather or not we are using plaster.

Quote:
6. do you use measuring tools for mix and water
No

Quote:
7. type of mixing method
Dewalt variable mixer

Quote:
8. container used
5 gallon bucket.

Quote:
9. do you use a corner tool
You can, but I don't.

Quote:
10. other tools used
Nothing special. In time you will find a way to go with your standard method.

Quote:
11. do you ever mix premix mud with hot like some I know and do you recommend we do this and how is it done effectively
I don't find it necessary. I go for a quicker dry. If you are hanging and three coating, you don't have that kind of time. You still want to produce a quality job and limit the sanding. Most people live in these houses so you may want to consider an extra skim with easy sand before topping with either mid-weight or light ready mix.


Quote:
For the last project we used 20 minute for the first coat and found that to dry too fast causing too much waste. The 45 minute seemed perfect with heavy for the first coat and lightweight for the second two coats.
Do you hand tape or run a machine? You don't need the heavy. I find that they both shrink about the same with hot mix, not so with ready mix.


Quote:
We mixed in small batches without measuring tools for mix ratio using a corner tool for corners mesh on the flat and paper in the corners and were able to sand and paint the following day as is usual for us on these types of small drywall projects.
Again you may want to consider mixing larger amounts and adding plaster to each hawk or pan. You can cut your mixing time in half. I've knocked out bath rooms with one mix of 45 just by doing this. That's three coats in a little more than an hour. Sand and touch up the next day and out. Altogether about 2 hours finishing time. I also use a porter cable sander to minimize dust.

Quote:
We used the sheetrock brand and have found the brand Lowes carried last year in our area of NY State to be garbage since it did not dry in the time frame stated in the instructions.
I've had no problem with sheetrock brand. Proform just came out with a new product that so far I like. I'm a little leery of them because in the past I didn't like the way their products stuck to the wall. The product was peeling when you top it with ready mix. But the new stuff seems to be holding up well for now. I have yet to test it over a painted surface. That makes a huge difference. Especially when you need to do a tie in.

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