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-   -   glue and screw drywall (https://www.contractortalk.com/f49/glue-screw-drywall-109854/)

glkirk 12-25-2011 11:26 PM

Here on the coast of Virginia, we always "tack" with smooth cement coated drywall nails. Then go back and screw off.
Granted, sometimes I wondered about the lack of screws on walls, but maybe thats why I didn't have much problems with pops.
I built over 50 homes, used mumerous crews, watched hundreds more homes being built and never once did I ever see, on plans or in practice, glue being used.
Not to say that it can't be used. You can can overbuild lots of entities and hope the appraiser gives you credit for it and hope you can afford to sit on that house because it won't sell because it is overpriced. Something to think about when your whole world revolves around the sale of that house.
On another note, an old timer once told me; not to "over build" things, as they may have to be dismantled at some point. He was 70 and he and his family had been building (Framing) homes their entire life.
5/8'-If you are going to use it on walls, be sure the windows (that were ordered and set long before) have the right jams. And order your interior doors accordingly.
Here, we use allot of one coat plaster and "Blueboard".
Two coat plaster was used on wood lath and 2'x4' drywall with no tape.
The blueboard has no different qualities except a blue coating is applied to help the plaster stick.
The plaster we use is "blocked in" and let set, 1/2 hr. (covering the mesh tape), then applied with a trowel at about 3/16", feathered at doors and windows and "sponged" to an attractive swirl pattern. Kitchens and baths get smooth.
This costs about the same as "Drywall" and 200 board homes can easily be plastered in one day. Some people prefer this finish for its harder surface.

skillman 12-25-2011 11:27 PM

Has nothin to do with how long someone has been in business just doing something that will give you a quality installation that stands the test of time. No matter what trade.

JesseCocozza 12-25-2011 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman
There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mine you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.

It's not an inferior product if it's not glued, it's just the way some of you prefer to do it.

Like I said before. It's not common practice here, so one could assume that cracks and pops are also not as common. Therefore, if you see structure that might subject drywall to cracking or popping, wouldn't the "superior" task be augmenting the structure to resist movement? That might be too time consuming or costly, so we'll just glue the drywall. Problem solved. That's how I view it. It's a band aid or duct tape to mask a bigger problem. Is that problem your's? Not unless you framed it. So point those things out to the GC or homeowner and deal with it on an as needed basis. Don't tell everyone else that they're lazy hacks if they're not dealing with the same circumstances.

griz 12-25-2011 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman (Post 1368417)
There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mean you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman (Post 1368421)
Has nothin to do with how long someone has been in business just doing something that will give you a quality installation that stands the test of time. No matter what trade.


Glue does not make a quality drywall job. If you can't make it come out right without glue hire a pro...

I'll bet our lumber out here has the same moisture content as yours...

And if we are talking metal framing....:laughing::laughing::laughing:

You'd be in business about 2 weeks out here. And do not even start to preach that superior quality crap...

If you can get away with that & convince people that glue makes your drywall job superior....you are wasting your time in the trades...

I bet there are a bunch of Eskimo's that need AC units....:laughing:

Tech Dawg 12-25-2011 11:39 PM

If glue is not needed for a ceiling etc... Then why is it spec'd for a "high end" residential build?

griz 12-25-2011 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tech Dawg (Post 1368427)
If glue is not needed for a ceiling etc... Then why is it spec'd for a "high end" residential build?

Not always. The spec I have seen, is how I have stated previously.
5/8" board over 5/8" plywood, both glued & screwed & the plywood edge blocked. This is for a large expanse of that dam no texture smooth finish. I just do not like that look.

skillman 12-25-2011 11:47 PM

( Griz )



Wasnt just talkin about drywall with glue and material. Talkin general about any trade has differnt methods of products.



:laughing::laughing::laughing: Metal my bread and butter.

Tech Dawg 12-25-2011 11:50 PM

I think a lot of the confusion is due to building codes in different states, municipalities etc... Some places, your ceilings are required to be glued... Roughly in a 20x20 basement, your talking under 30 bux in liquid nails or loctite to glue a ceiling up. I just always looked at it as extra insurance :shrug:

griz 12-25-2011 11:53 PM

Aw heck, it's all good.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I've just been around little kids all day, fueled by candy, & have been enjoying copious amounts of Christmas cheer. Day started at 5AM & I didn't have a nap today.

Best wishes to all you guys this New Year....:thumbsup::thumbup:

skillman 12-25-2011 11:56 PM

:thumbsup: Last minutes of merry xmas to all.

Tech Dawg 12-25-2011 11:58 PM

I'm friggin merry, merry still bloated from dinner... :laughing:

skillman 12-26-2011 12:00 AM

I hear you there.:laughing:

Big Shoe 12-26-2011 05:46 AM

Whew! Look what I missed out on! Too much egg nog! :laughing:

Hey Naperville boys, I started out glueing and nailing in your neighborhood waaaaay back in 1973.

Moved to florida in 79 and found these shiney flimsey things they called metal studs.:blink:

So for 32 yrs I,ve been doing sub-standard work. No,I don't think so.

We screw everything.....Even on wood.....No glue......No problems....Capeesh.

Where's Sir Mixalot when you need him.

TNTRenovate 12-26-2011 11:54 AM

I still stick by gluing is better. I respect those that have been doing it for years and years, but it doesn't mean that we are not correct in saying that gluing is better. While screws don't eliminate pops they help reduce them greatly. Glue is just an added step to help reduce them even more. It also helps in sound deadening, which all homes benefit.

This will be my last post on the subject seeing that everyone knows where I stand and it's just going in circles. I made the statement that it was lazy not to, and started the angry debate. I do apologize for the comment. It was inflammatory and out of line. :thumbsup:

TBFGhost 12-26-2011 06:05 PM

How does it deaden the sound? The best sound deadening technically involves breaking the physical path that sound travels in. IE, using 2x6 plates with 2x4 studs staggered and insulation woven in-between is one way.

Adding glue to the rock just seems to me that it would make such a small difference it would be insignificant.

Splinter 12-26-2011 06:59 PM

glue between sheets stiffens the boards considerably... That cuts down on the vibration transmission.


It's not ideal however... A damping compound between sheets is a smarter idea.

Gluing a single layer of sheetrock to framing wont help sound deadening at all.

davitk 12-26-2011 09:42 PM

I'm just a few miles on the cold side of Naperville and have never seen drywall being glued, or found it glued on a demo. Weird.

davitk 12-26-2011 09:47 PM

Uh, not you TNT, just the messing with glue while hanging, being weird. :rolleyes:

How do the hangers keep from smearing it all over the face of the rock?

Tinstaafl 12-26-2011 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davitk (Post 1368976)
How do the hangers keep from smearing it all over the face of the rock?

You put the glue on the studs & joists. :whistling

Tom Struble 12-26-2011 09:54 PM

non gluing slackers:rolleyes:

skcolo 12-26-2011 11:07 PM

They probably glue the cabinets to the walls also. It makes it quieter when the doors get slammed as you cuss out the guys who glued the sheetrock up while doing some drywall demo.

Mike- 12-27-2011 03:40 AM

Really.....?

Big Shoe 12-27-2011 05:15 AM

We do alot of remodels and I'm always telling the guys helping tear out the drywall they should be glad it was'nt all glued on! Whew, just thinking about it wears me out.:laughing:

And for the record, in my opinion, nail/glue or screws are both good systems.:smile:

TBFGhost 12-27-2011 09:38 AM

I don't use glue, as I hate tearing out stuff that was glued and just from what I have seen personally the nail pops/cracks didn't seem any better or worse, altho, I was not taking the time to study the drywall before I tore it out.

davitk 12-27-2011 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Shoe (Post 1368480)
Whew! Look what I missed out on! Too much egg nog! :laughing:

Hey Naperville boys, I started out glueing and nailing in your neighborhood waaaaay back in 1973.

Moved to florida in 79 and found these shiney flimsey things they called metal studs.:blink:

So for 32 yrs I,ve been doing sub-standard work. No,I don't think so.

We screw everything.....Even on wood.....No glue......No problems....Capeesh.

Where's Sir Mixalot when you need him.

If I dare read between the lines, gluing drywall started way back when we were still nailing drywall. Seems to me the screwing makes the gluing redundant.

I still want to know how hangers don't smear glue all over the face of the rock.

SSC 12-27-2011 04:29 PM

The only time i have ever glued drywall was to stiffen up a kneewall both framed in metal or wood.

Maybe we should start gluing the doorknobs to the door, the hinges to the jamb or the wall angle to the wall. :rolleyes:

I have to go glue the fan to the ceiling :laughing:

skillman 12-27-2011 04:59 PM

Everone can we agree to just disagree.:blink:

Tom M 12-27-2011 05:05 PM

Wow hot thread....everyone glues new construction to reduce number of fasteners and float walls while maintaining a strong bond. Cheap insurance upgrade. I never use it on old work nor do I see anyone do it. Im sure its a nightmare to remove.

EPD 12-27-2011 09:28 PM

I have never seen glued drywall. I do like the idea, and consider it better building practice.
I would just like to know where we are going to draw the line in the sand?
It would be nice in theory to glue nearly everything during the construction process, however IMO its not realistic.

TBFGhost 12-27-2011 09:54 PM

I am going to want to shoot every present day contractor in 20 years when I am trying to reno a house and they thought it would be a good idea to PL Premium everything..... Everything and anything a human will ever build will always need service, and to produce an object in a fashion that only makes service harder or impossible is frustrating and more expensive in both the initial costs and future service costs.

skillman 12-27-2011 10:40 PM

Mike holmes says you cant go wrong with ever over building.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

griz 12-27-2011 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBFGhost (Post 1369804)
I am going to want to shoot every present day contractor in 20 years when I am trying to reno a house and they thought it would be a good idea to PL Premium everything..... Everything and anything a human will ever build will always need service, and to produce an object in a fashion that only makes service harder or impossible is frustrating and more expensive in both the initial costs and future service costs.

This is why remodeling can get so expensive...:whistling:laughing:

One never knows what or how the previous guy did it...:laughing:

JesseCocozza 12-27-2011 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSC
The only time i have ever glued drywall was to stiffen up a kneewall both framed in metal or wood.

Maybe we should start gluing the doorknobs to the door, the hinges to the jamb or the wall angle to the wall. :rolleyes:

I have to go glue the fan to the ceiling :laughing:

This made my day... Thanks! Now if you let me get back to work, I just have to finish glueing my washer machine to the floor so it doesn't rock back and forth anymore. It helps dampen the sound as it won't rock into the dryer anymore.

Tech Dawg 12-27-2011 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseCocozza

This made my day... Thanks! Now if you let me get back to work, I just have to finish glueing my washer machine to the floor so it doesn't rock back and forth anymore. It helps dampen the sound as it won't rock into the dryer anymore.

That was even funnier :laughing::lol:

skillman 12-27-2011 11:56 PM

Be careful you my give to many people ideas about there movein machines.:laughing::laughing::laughing:

Big Shoe 12-28-2011 05:01 AM

Joe, SSC is right. When I build and hang free standing wall/ knee walls I glue the bottom of the board(paper edge)to the concrete slab and bottom plate.

Try it next time. once that glue sets up that baby ain't gonna rock:thumbsup:

Big Shoe 12-28-2011 05:13 AM

I live in a house built in 1977. All wood framing ,all screws, no glue.

I've pretty much redone this 4,000 sq ft house end to end and never saw one issue with the drywall.

Except why did that poor bastard use 2'' metal screws to hang 1/2'' drywall to the ceiling :blink::blink:

Tom Struble 12-28-2011 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBFGhost (Post 1369804)
I am going to want to shoot every present day contractor in 20 years when I am trying to reno a house and they thought it would be a good idea to PL Premium everything..... Everything and anything a human will ever build will always need service, and to produce an object in a fashion that only makes service harder or impossible is frustrating and more expensive in both the initial costs and future service costs.

your going to love using your HF laser guided gutster bar:thumbup:

TBFGhost 12-28-2011 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Struble (Post 1370066)
your going to love using your HF laser guided gutster bar:thumbup:

Regrettably I have not purchased one yet. I will have to stick with my Bostitch 24 and 36" bars.

Tom Struble 12-29-2011 07:04 AM

well...you still have 20 years to pick one up:sad:

bob_cntrctr 05-14-2012 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinstaafl (Post 1368985)
You put the glue on the studs & joists. :whistling

Resurrecting an old thread - 'cause this makes zero sense to me.

How the heck do you glue drywall to studs through the vapour barrier?

VanGoghFinish 05-14-2012 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob_cntrctr (Post 1497041)
Resurrecting an old thread - 'cause this makes zero sense to me.

How the heck do you glue drywall to studs through the vapour barrier?

This would be one of of the very few time we do not screw and glue our jobs. The other one would be when I uneducated insulator staples the :censored: paper to the face of the framing like a retard! I cant believe the amount of debate of this subject. Here on the east coast you guys would never get a job for any reputable building company if you didnt plan on at the very least gluing and nailing perimeters and screwing the fields. Although my company has went to all and screws and glue about 10 years ago which is by far the Cadillac method of installing a quality rock job. And for the guys who say that there jobs or homes they live in that have been nailed dont have a "single pop":rolleyes: your not looking hard enough they are there! maybe you dont care to see them.

TNTRenovate 05-14-2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VanGoghFinish (Post 1497263)
This would be one of of the very few time we do not screw and glue our jobs. The other one would be when I uneducated insulator staples the :censored: paper to the face of the framing like a retard! I cant believe the amount of debate of this subject. Here on the east coast you guys would never get a job for any reputable building company if you didnt plan on at the very least gluing and nailing perimeters and screwing the fields. Although my company has went to all and screws and glue about 10 years ago which is by far the Cadillac method of installing a quality rock job. And for the guys who say that there jobs or homes they live in that have been nailed dont have a "single pop":rolleyes: your not looking hard enough they are there! maybe you dont care to see them.

The proper way to install paper faced insulation is to staple it to the face of the stud. The paper is the vapor barrier. Stapling it to the inside of the studs does several things: 1) creates air channels 2) compresses the insulation at the edges and 3) diminishes it's fire rating.

I guess you meant an uneducated installer, as an educated installer would know the reasons for proper installation and how to educate uninformed GC's and Reputable builders.

WarnerConstInc. 05-14-2012 08:26 PM

I just use contact cement, screws are too spendy.

Tinstaafl 05-14-2012 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1497274)
The proper way to install paper faced insulation is to staple it to the face of the stud.

I just took a cruise around the Owens-Corning site, and all of the examples I saw showed the paper being stapled to the sides of the studs. Not that I don't think face-stapling isn't more effective, can you provide a link to a manufacturer's recommendation for doing so?

Inner10 05-14-2012 10:44 PM

You can still buy paper back insulation? Wow haven't seen that stuff in eons.

TNTRenovate 05-15-2012 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinstaafl (Post 1497309)
I just took a cruise around the Owens-Corning site, and all of the examples I saw showed the paper being stapled to the sides of the studs. Not that I don't think face-stapling isn't more effective, can you provide a link to a manufacturer's recommendation for doing so?

They also show the 2x4's touching the cinder block wall of a "basement"...don't think I would take much stock in the accuracy of the installation methods of the photos, but I will find some data.

TNTRenovate 05-15-2012 01:23 AM

Here's is what I found. Both ways are approved by Owens Corning. The benefit of side stapling is to the drywaller, but will obviously reduce the VB properties of the facing. And common sense tells us that the insulation will be compressed some what along the edges, thus reducing the R value in those areas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ9u...hannel&list=UL

Go to about 1:30...

Tinstaafl 05-16-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1497388)
The benefit of side stapling is to the drywaller, but will obviously reduce the VB properties of the facing.

One thing that bears mentioning is that kraft paper is classed as a vapor retarder, not a barrier. In that sense, fastening over the stud faces is far from paramount.

Where it makes the most difference is when you think in terms of air barriers, which are much more important. But a typical properly done drywall job provides an excellent air barrier. After re-thinking and re-researching this subject for the umpteenth-thousand time, I'm prepared to say that face-fastening under those conditions is completely unnecessary overkill, and accomplishes little other than to make hanging the drywall difficult.

Good article and subsequent discussion from Martin Holladay here:

http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...vapor-barriers

Inner10 05-16-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Where it makes the most difference is when you think in terms of air barriers, which are much more important. But a typical properly done drywall job provides an excellent air barrier. After re-thinking and re-researching this subject for the umpteenth-thousand time, I'm prepared to say that face-fastening under those conditions is completely unnecessary overkill, and accomplishes little other than to make hanging the drywall difficult.
I like how at 3:00 the video explains to insulate around a pipe...here we always insulate behind the pipe if it has to run on an ext wall and put the vapor barrier behind the pipe.

Still doesn't nailing on the inside compress the edges and leave an unwanted air space all around the edge?

...The existence of paper back insulation still confuses me. :laughing:


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