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country_huck 12-24-2011 10:08 AM

glue and screw drywall
 
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I was taught when hanging ceilings to glue and screw the drywall, to me it made since. Is that standard practice or did i just learn from a guy that liked to take a few exstra steps.

TNTRenovate 12-24-2011 10:26 AM

If it is a sheet good I pretty much glue and screw it all.

dibs16 12-24-2011 10:31 AM

I've never glued a drywall ceiling other than a layover, or for soundproofing. But we strap every ceiling we drywall with 1x4 furring strips. If I were to ever screw directly to joists I would definitely glue it.

BrandConst 12-24-2011 10:44 AM

Never seen it glued unless overlaying. Must be something done more often up north. I use to be in the drywall business.

skillman 12-24-2011 10:56 AM

Glue and screw no one likes nail pops.

country_huck 12-24-2011 11:01 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman (Post 1367182)
Glue and screw no one likes nail pops.

that was the number one reason why I thought it was a good idea! but since i moved down south i havnt seen anyone do it so i was curious.

skillman 12-24-2011 11:07 AM

My drywall sub glues his 5/8 drywall on his ceiling . Doesnt use 1/2 anymore. Uses 5/8 on walls too.

woodworkbykirk 12-24-2011 11:23 AM

for new installs i was taught to just screw it. if we have old walls with wallpaper we would just go over it with a layer of 1/4" glued and screwed

skillman 12-24-2011 11:29 AM

They tack it with drywall nails then on to next board. Another guy comes back and just screws all day long. They bang out houses like no one i ever seen. Last job 3,000 sq ft home done in one day with good crews.

country_huck 12-24-2011 11:35 AM

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When i first started we did 5/8 glued and screwd on ceiling and 1/2 on walls, I now use 1/2 that stuff meant for ceiling (the name escapes me now) and i still glue.

Mike- 12-24-2011 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman
My drywall sub glues his 5/8 drywall on his ceiling . Doesnt use 1/2 anymore. Uses 5/8 on walls too.

Does this not create an issue when it comes to finishing and door jamb width?

Mike- 12-24-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike-

Does this not create an issue when it comes to finishing and door jamb width?

4.563 is our door jamb width standard here in bc.

skillman 12-24-2011 11:46 AM

The 5/8 drywall goes little better over uneven studs with less bows and sags. Doors are orderd to the width of the correct door jamb as well as window jamb extension.

Mike- 12-24-2011 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman
The 5/8 drywall goes little better over uneven studs with less bows and sags. Doors are orderd to the width of the correct door jamb as well as window jamb extension.

Most of the time, it would be a custom order. Thanks for the clarification.

griz 12-24-2011 12:24 PM

Only times I have seen drywall glued & screwed is on 5/8" board over 5/8" plywood, which was also glued & screwed & edge blocked.

Common installation method in high end residential when they want that dam no texture smooth finish...

TNTRenovate 12-24-2011 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by country_huck (Post 1367186)
that was the number one reason why I thought it was a good idea! but since i moved down south i havnt seen anyone do it so i was curious.

Lazy! :whistling

Tech Dawg 12-24-2011 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by country_huck

that was the number one reason why I thought it was a good idea! but since i moved down south i havnt seen anyone do it so i was curious.

My drywall finisher moved up from Virginia... He was amazed to see me glue studs and use 5 screws per stud (in 4 ft). He mentioned that other contractors around here are pretty much the same and make the joints nice and tight.
From what he tells me, the Virginia boys are sloppy hangers...

BrandConst 12-24-2011 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1367644)
Lazy! :whistling

Lazy? Your clueless to say the least! :laughing: Bring yourself down here for a bit and see if you can make a living gluing and screwing. I worked in the drywall business for 7 years and I'm purty darn sure I've seen alot more drywall stuck to the wall than you and it hasnt been glued.

country_huck 12-24-2011 08:45 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandConst (Post 1367677)
Lazy? Your clueless to say the least! :laughing: Bring yourself down here for a bit and see if you can make a living gluing and screwing. I worked in the drywall business for 7 years and I'm purty darn sure I've seen alot more drywall stuck to the wall than you and it hasnt been glued.

your probably right but, however over 80% of home construction is track housing by huge businesses that dont care anything about quality, all they care about is that the huricane clips are installed so they can pass code and the rest is :censored: Finishes are not inspected so who cares.

BrandConst 12-24-2011 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by country_huck (Post 1367713)
your probably right but, however over 80% of home construction is track housing by huge businesses that dont care anything about quality, all they care about is that the huricane clips are installed so they can pass code and the rest is :censored: Finishes are not inspected so who cares.

I've done it domed ceilings, cathedrals, coffered..etc, etc,... in new 12k sf homes and new 2k sf homes. No glue unless your doing drywall reveals.

To add, when I was in the drywall business, we didn't work for track builders, only custom.

TNTRenovate 12-24-2011 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandConst (Post 1367677)
Lazy? Your clueless to say the least! :laughing: Bring yourself down here for a bit and see if you can make a living gluing and screwing. I worked in the drywall business for 7 years and I'm purty darn sure I've seen alot more drywall stuck to the wall than you and it hasnt been glued.

Clueless...I don't think so. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and think what you want.

If I were down there, I would find a way to make a living gluing and screwing, or I wouldn't do it. It's just a matter of knowing how to sell it. If you are not sold yourself on the benefit, then you will never be able to sell it to your clients.

When it gets down to it, it's not the gluing and screwing that's the problem, it's the low wage illegal workers that drive the cost down to where guys are willing to sacrifice quality to stay in business.

Big Shoe 12-25-2011 06:57 AM

Nobody glues drywall here.....nada........never.......glue.........what 's that...........:blink:

Ancient Rocker 12-25-2011 08:14 AM

I have been using glue for 41 years and discovered the only people who don't glue just don't know any better. Common sense eludes way too many "professional" hangers.

BrandConst 12-25-2011 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1367777)
Clueless...I don't think so. But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and think what you want.

If I were down there, I would find a way to make a living gluing and screwing, or I wouldn't do it. It's just a matter of knowing how to sell it. If you are not sold yourself on the benefit, then you will never be able to sell it to your clients.

When it gets down to it, it's not the gluing and screwing that's the problem, it's the low wage illegal workers that drive the cost down to where guys are willing to sacrifice quality to stay in business.


You don't know how things work down here just like I don't know how things work up there so it's a little out of line to say something is lazy. I'm fairly sure if a hurricane blew into Obamaville, IL there would be nothing left.

TNTRenovate 12-25-2011 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandConst (Post 1367899)
You don't know how things work down here just like I don't know how things work up there so it's a little out of line to say something is lazy. I'm fairly sure if a hurricane blew into Obamaville, IL there would be nothing left.

Funny you say that, I grew up in the Dallas area. All my family lives in around or near Dallas/Ft. Worth. We had to replace my grandparents ceiling because it was falling down from cracks and nail pops. Never would have happened if it were glued and screwed.

I have not seen a house that we owned or any family or friend that didn't have pops all over the ceiling and walls. It's just what you get when you don't do it right.

But what does Hurricanes that have to do with gluing drywall? One has nothing to do with the other. You were saying that you couldn't be competitive using glue, not that it was weather related. That's not apples to apples, more of a strawman argument. Put it up so that you can knock it down.

I know that it is the right thing to do. It is not that much more cost, and the benefit is well worth the expense. But I guess if all one is worried about is getting in and out, then that way of thinking works.

And I wish they required more structural reinforcement here. I know that we experience more tornadoes than you do hurricanes.

Morning Wood 12-25-2011 10:34 AM

What do u glue the drywall with? You gluing it to strapping or right to studs and joists? Is it a pain to pull drywall that has been glued or do u use a glue that comes off easily like silicone or something? What about blueboard? U guys glue blueboard that is getting base coated and skim coated?

TNTRenovate 12-25-2011 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morning Wood (Post 1367941)
What do u glue the drywall with? You gluing it to strapping or right to studs and joists? Is it a pain to pull drywall that has been glued or do u use a glue that comes off easily like silicone or something? What about blueboard? U guys glue blueboard that is getting base coated and skim coated?

1) Liquid Nails, or PL
2) Whatever you are fastening to
3) Yes, but when anything is built right it shouldn't be easy to take apart
4) Blueboard is a mold/midlew resistant product, never used it, but Holmes loves the stuff.

BrandConst 12-25-2011 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1367940)
Funny you say that, I grew up in the Dallas area. All my family lives in around or near Dallas/Ft. Worth. We had to replace my grandparents ceiling because it was falling down from cracks and nail pops. Never would have happened if it were glued and screwed.

I have not seen a house that we owned or any family or friend that didn't have pops all over the ceiling and walls. It's just what you get when you don't do it right.

But what does Hurricanes that have to do with gluing drywall? One has nothing to do with the other. You were saying that you couldn't be competitive using glue, not that it was weather related. That's not apples to apples, more of a strawman argument. Put it up so that you can knock it down.

I know that it is the right thing to do. It is not that much more cost, and the benefit is well worth the expense. But I guess if all one is worried about is getting in and out, then that way of thinking works.

And I wish they required more structural reinforcement here. I know that we experience more tornadoes than you do hurricanes.

What hurricanes have to do is your implication of lowering quality. it's baseless and probably something expected of you and the arrogance you exhibit.

I use to be a PM for the 3rd largest restoration company in the U.S. and have yet to see drywall glued when ripping it out after water damage or fire damage and I've been all over the country doing it.

I'm not saying people don't do it but I can tell you right now it's not a standard application at all. Which is why I go back to the point I made earlier....don't accuse people of being lazy because they don't do it like you or it seems useless to do to them.

Have you ever had to pull damaged sheetrock off of a stud that it was glued to?

Ancient Rocker 12-25-2011 11:09 AM

The Naperville boys are correct. When hanging drywall the intent is to fasten it as well as possible so it is a pain in the ass to remove. It is called quality.

BrandConst 12-25-2011 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Rocker (Post 1367971)
The Naperville boys are correct. When hanging drywall the intent is to fasten it as well as possible so it is a pain in the ass to remove. It is called quality.

:no: maybe in illinois

Ancient Rocker 12-25-2011 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandConst (Post 1367978)
:no: maybe in illinois

In Texas it is better to be able to take off drywall than be fastened correctly? Wow, is that awful.

BrandConst 12-25-2011 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ancient Rocker (Post 1367982)
In Texas it is better to be able to take off drywall than be fastened correctly? Wow, is that awful.

I built my house 11 years ago and to this day it hasnt one nail pop and I live 5 miles from galveston bay. The standard around here is nailing the perimeter and screwing the field. If you read my posts before I'm not attacking anyones way of installing rock, my two points are:

-it's not the standard application nor is it required by any manufacturer so don't call someone lazy for not doing it.

-second, have you ever had to tear off rock that was glued?

TNTRenovate 12-25-2011 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrandConst (Post 1367949)
What hurricanes have to do is your implication of lowering quality. it's baseless and probably something expected of you and the arrogance you exhibit.

I use to be a PM for the 3rd largest restoration company in the U.S. and have yet to see drywall glued when ripping it out after water damage or fire damage and I've been all over the country doing it.

I'm not saying people don't do it but I can tell you right now it's not a standard application at all. Which is why I go back to the point I made earlier....don't accuse people of being lazy because they don't do it like you or it seems useless to do to them.

Have you ever had to pull damaged sheetrock off of a stud that it was glued to?

What you see as arrogance, I see as confidence. :thumbsup:

Hurricane straps and glue serve a purpose. Hurricane strapping is a method used to secure structures during hurricanes. As you sarcastically pointed out, we don't suffer from hurricanes. While I agree standards should be higher in Tornado alley, it just not the same analogy, and here's why. All homes suffer from different expansion and contraction rates from different materials. Gravity is the same in Texas as it is in Illinois. The purpose of gluing drywall is universal and benefits all drywall jobs.

I still think it lazy not to glue the drywall. You have not presented any other real argument against the use.

1) I can not be competitive in the market. (Just because we don't know a way to do something, doesn't mean that a way does not exist. That's close minded thinking that will leave you in the back of the line looking at those that are moving forward.)

2) You see it as useless. (The word useless means, "with out use". The use is simple and elementary. It prevents cracking, nail pops, and ads strength to the structure.

3) It is not a standard practice. (If you are waiting for things to be standard practice, I guess minimum code is good enough as well?)

It's unfortunate that you would consider the removal of something when installing it. That is backwards and definitely lazy thinking. All you do is remove the drywall and scrape off the glue. I install things to last and not be easily removed. I hope you don't do tile.

Tinstaafl 12-25-2011 12:33 PM

Peace on Earth, good will to men... men. :whistling.

If someone has drywall hanging procedures that make it a sufficiently strong and durable job, omitting extra steps that make it "overbuilt" is not laziness. It's just good practical and business sense.

One of the biggest challenges we face in our search for excellence is learning to recognize when things do and don't matter. :thumbsup:

Tech Dawg 12-25-2011 12:34 PM

Cmon guys... Its Christmas day, don't argue :laughing:

TNTRenovate 12-25-2011 12:41 PM

I just guess I wouldn't consider fixing a common problem "over built". Seriously, what does it cost in extra time and material? Maybe a buck a sheet in glue, and all of about 15 seconds. Now that seems like good and practical business sense!

Rio 12-25-2011 01:59 PM

Merry Christmas but ixnay on the need for gluing drywall in addition to screwing it. If it's screwed correctly I don't see the need to be gluing it also; now for putting down floor sheathing, yeah, construction adhesive and screwnails are the ticket to a stiff diaphragm.....

country_huck 12-25-2011 09:34 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1368056)
Seriously, what does it cost in extra time and material? Maybe a buck a sheet in glue, and all of about 15 seconds. Now that seems like good and practical business sense!

I mean thats pennies comparied to coming back and fixing nail pops and cracking.

sevonty 12-25-2011 09:34 PM

I am not trying to attack anyone only try to understand what I do not as those who do not glue are pros and the brst way to learn is from other pros.
That being said,The purpose of glueing floor is to prevent squekes and nail pops also adding to structure stregth. if it is a ceiling on a 2 story house wher there is floor above would the board hung below not be subjected to the same stress and issues of deflection as the floor above? If the ceiling is to a attic space does the non climate controled attic still not change tempeture and humitity almost at the same rate as the outside, causeing the trusses/ ceiling joist to expand and contract? Over time would these forces not have an effect on the statinary nail/screws in a ever moving joist/truss?
would glue not defend against these forces longer then nothing?

JesseCocozza 12-25-2011 10:29 PM

I guess it really depends on where your working and what kind of engineering is required on the structure. Around here, no one relies on drywall to act as your diaphragm. I know it acts as one when screwed to your ceiling joists / trusses / rafters, but all those framing members are strapped, blocked, braced and inspected before drywall goes up. I would say gluing is a great extra step if all you're doing is nailing it, but I would venture to say the the vast majority screws their rock here. As for the expansion and contraction bit, I can't help to picture what happens to vinyl siding when you set the nail tight rather than leaving it proud for movement. Wouldn't the glue inhibit movement and cause cracking if you're bonding two materials that are subjected to movement?

TNTRenovate 12-25-2011 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseCocozza (Post 1368380)
I guess it really depends on where your working and what kind of engineering is required on the structure. Around here, no one relies on drywall to act as your diaphragm. I know it acts as one when screwed to your ceiling joists / trusses / rafters, but all those framing members are strapped, blocked, braced and inspected before drywall goes up. I would say gluing is a great extra step if all you're doing is nailing it, but I would venture to say the the vast majority screws their rock here. As for the expansion and contraction bit, I can't help to picture what happens to vinyl siding when you set the nail tight rather than leaving it proud for movement. Wouldn't the glue inhibit movement and cause cracking if you're bonding two materials that are subjected to movement?

Vinyl siding is the one doing the expansion and contraction. The drywall is pushed in and out, thus creating nail and screw pops. Ceilings are the topic, but I would glue all drywall. You will never have an issue if you glue.

griz 12-25-2011 10:49 PM

On the West Coast I have never seen drywall glued unless spec'd or high end residential. Screw/nail pops have never been an issue...

JesseCocozza 12-25-2011 10:55 PM

I understand that. However drywall is subject to expansion and contraction just like the wood that you're attaching it to is. I'm just asking if there might still be cracking. The nail pops in my opinion is a simple enough fix... Eliminate the nail and use a screw instead. I agree that the glue might be an added step to ensure a secure install but whether it is nessecary or not is the question? This mentality of "what can I do to make something better?" is commendable but it doesn't mean that someone is receiving a sub par product if the rock is not glued. There are other factors involved including the quality of the finishing, so it's hard to conclude that the glue is solving all the problems.

skillman 12-25-2011 11:03 PM

Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move.


If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.

clancrawford55 12-25-2011 11:04 PM

I have never seen it glued on in Ny either unless it is an overlay or for acoustics.
If it catches on in this area i will be a nightmatre doing remodels as everything that is built anymore will be rebuilt again & again. I think this is why M. Holmes screws all of his framing.

Mike- 12-25-2011 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clancrawford55
I have never seen it glued on in Ny either unless it is an overlay or for acoustics.
If it catches on in this area i will be a nightmatre doing remodels as everything that is built anymore will be rebuilt again & again. I think this is why M. Holmes screws all of his framing.

I was told by a good source that he screws everything because even he makes mistakes and that changes do take place and they are easier to take care of this way. Lol.

JesseCocozza 12-25-2011 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman
Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move.

If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.

Ok forgive me on the screw pop bit, obviously we've all seen them. However I've seen less screw pops than I've seen nail pops. I'm not saying that gluing is bad. I'm saying that it's not the end-all-be-all. It's not common practice here. We've all seen the pops and cracks. We've also all seen perfectly fine walls and ceilings that weren't glued. I'm suggesting that there are more variables in the equation to make a statement like " if you glue it, you won't have any problems."

griz 12-25-2011 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skillman (Post 1368402)
Its like why even put rebar in concrete. That suff dont move.


If you have never seen a screw pop you are blind or havent been in trade to long.

I'll bet I've been in business longer than you are old.

Never said I haven't seen one, Eye Doc just gave me 20/20, just never been an issue.

skillman 12-25-2011 11:20 PM

There could always be problems with glue or material from factory defects. Doesnt mean you dont do the extra step to make a superior product.

Tinstaafl 12-25-2011 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES (Post 1368389)
The drywall is pushed in and out, thus creating nail and screw pops.

Who or what is pushing it in and out?

Are you familiar with the theory that many nail pops are caused by shrinkage of new-construction framing? I find the concept quite persuasive, and to be honest, don't recall experiencing pops to any extent when re-hanging on existing "aged" framing.


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