Drywall Over Plaster Lath - Drywall - Contractor Talk

Drywall Over Plaster Lath

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-26-2012, 07:27 PM   #1
Registered User
 
oldhouses's Avatar
 
Trade: drywall
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10

Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Hello,

I'm working on a 100 old house with a flat roof. Top floor ceilings are plaster lath construction, with true 2x4 framing and loose fill above. I would like to add 1x3 furring strips to level and then 1/2 inch drywall, but i'm concerned about the extra weight..... Taking plaster and lath down, is not an option.... Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks
oldhouses is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-26-2012, 09:00 PM   #2
Pro
 
schaefercs's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Rochester NY
Posts: 593
Rewards Points: 520

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


What about just taking the plaster down not the lath?

Advertisement

schaefercs is offline  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:05 PM   #3
Pro
 
cleveman's Avatar
 
Trade: custom home building
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 2,836
Rewards Points: 2,624

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Why is it not an option to remove the plaster & lathe?

If it is not an option, why are you posting?
cleveman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-26-2012, 09:10 PM   #4
Every now and then poster
 
ohiohomedoctor's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Remodeling Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 13,436
Rewards Points: 3,544

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


I am assuming is not an option is code for "possibly over your head" or perhaps "more than you want to bite off". The best case is always to remove old wall board so that a proper inspection can be preformed. Also gives you an option to update electrical and install proper insulation all while reducing total weight load on the structure. Maybe you (original poster aka op) could elaborate on why removal is not an option so that more clear and specific advise may be given.
ohiohomedoctor is offline  
Old 03-26-2012, 09:25 PM   #5
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 23,320
Rewards Points: 1,661

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


It's not all that uncommon to drywall over old plaster & lathe vs the labor and mess associated with removing it. In most cases, you can use 3/8" board instead of 1/2" if you're concerned about the weight. Those old 2x4s can take a lot more than the modern stuff.
Tinstaafl is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tinstaafl For This Useful Post:
MALCO.New.York (03-27-2012)
Old 03-26-2012, 09:31 PM   #6
Every now and then poster
 
ohiohomedoctor's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Remodeling Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 13,436
Rewards Points: 3,544

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhouses
Hello,

I would like to add 1x3 furring strips to level.

Thanks
This is the part that struck me. Not sure how much leveling this is going to accomplish. Also, tins was right, typically when this is done its 3/8 over top no furring to minimize jamb and electrical box extension work.
ohiohomedoctor is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ohiohomedoctor For This Useful Post:
MALCO.New.York (03-27-2012)
Old 03-26-2012, 09:49 PM   #7
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,333
Rewards Points: 1,288

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Rocking over plaster and lath is very common, as is busting out the plaster, leaving the lath, and rocking. FWIW, as an RRP certified professional, I can tell you that yanking out the ceiling definitely would require the whole lead treatment routine and possibly may have to be treated as asbestos containing. In any event, you can easily rock over a ceiling while the rest of the house is occupied. Take out the ceiling and you just signed up for another inspection and so on and so forth. A lot of the old plaster ceilings were strapped down with 1X3 furring and lightweight tiles similar to Homasote installed. It's pretty common to see these installations pulling loose, but they usually don't fall down. Wallboard, on the otherhand has plenty of weight to pull the strapping the lath is nailed to right off the joists.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:06 PM   #8
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,333
Rewards Points: 1,288

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiohomedoctor View Post
This is the part that struck me. Not sure how much leveling this is going to accomplish. Also, tins was right, typically when this is done its 3/8 over top no furring to minimize jamb and electrical box extension work.
I've seen this done (and disagree with it). Shims are placed between the 1X3 and the ceiling to level it.

I also disagree with just screwing 3/8 onto the existing plaster. You're basically doubling the weight that's being held up by the few nails put in 100 years ago that tie the joists and the original strapping. There was one around here that made the news when it fell down on people.

When I do these I use 2X4s for strapping and put them directly below the joists. 4 screws are put into the joists through the new strapping at each of the intersections of original strapping and joists just beyond the edge of the original strapping. I just have to make sure there is no wiring in the way before I put the screws in. If I want to shim, I have to pull the ceiling back into place first, then shim and strap.

Maybe it's overkill, but it won't fall down.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-26-2012, 10:10 PM   #9
Every now and then poster
 
ohiohomedoctor's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Remodeling Professional
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 13,436
Rewards Points: 3,544

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


I understand the rrp restraints, the additional inspection, and added costs involved, but at the end on the day there is simply not substitute for stripping it down, adding new lighting and insulation, and getting a chance to see the structure first hand.

Last edited by ohiohomedoctor; 03-26-2012 at 10:39 PM.
ohiohomedoctor is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 05:29 AM   #10
Pro
 
Big Shoe's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpentry,drywall,trim. Part time painter.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,459
Rewards Points: 2,024

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


I would go with metal hat channel. No worrys about wood splitting and it is very easy to shimm.
Definitely find trusses to screw into.
As far as drywall, the added weight issue is interesting. I normally only double up with 1/2''. But I don't think 3/8' would be an issue with the channels 16'' o.c.
I rarely run into plaster remodels here.
Big Shoe is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Big Shoe For This Useful Post:
hdavis (03-27-2012)
Old 03-27-2012, 08:37 AM   #11
Pro
 
Frankawitz's Avatar
 
Trade: Plastering, Drywall, Painting, Woodworking, Stucco
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: South Eastern Michigan outside of Detroit.
Posts: 1,768
Rewards Points: 1,196

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


This always gets me drywallers trying to fix plaster
Why not take the time to learn how to fix the plaster instead of tearing it out or covering it up. Oh yeah I know if takes to long and costs to much,!

Last edited by Frankawitz; 03-27-2012 at 08:39 AM.
Frankawitz is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frankawitz For This Useful Post:
aptpupil (03-27-2012), rogerhattman (03-29-2012)
Old 03-27-2012, 08:43 AM   #12
Registered User
 
oldhouses's Avatar
 
Trade: drywall
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


As hdavis spoke about, I'm trying to avoid the possible lead/asbestos issue and still be safe.... This is why I was asking about the original true 2x4 construction.... My spans are 9ft in one room and 15ft in the other, and as I mentioned before, I was thinking about the added weight of the sheetrock... The structure is slight pitch flat roof supported by 4x10 true lumber and 24 inch of attic space with loose fill over true 2x4 lumber about 40ft long 16 oc covered with original plaster/lath.... I would say in decent shape for being 100 years old wihout sag.... I would like to just rock it and encapsulate everything...

I was also thinking about reframing new ceiling below... I have the height because the ceilings are now 12ft tall... I figured I would have to use 1x6 and 1x8 lumber....
oldhouses is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 09:09 AM   #13
Pro
 
Chris G's Avatar
 
Trade: Porch and Deck Builder
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,096
Rewards Points: 1,210

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Oh heck, if you've got 12 feet, then reframe it like a drop ceiling. I know you think the joist haven't sagged, but I'm sure they have. Shimming furring strips on wonky plaster can drive a gentle man to kill kittens.
__________________
I can not emphasize how stupid I really am

http://www.vicporch.ca
Deck Fence Porch Builder Toronto
Chris G is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:42 AM   #14
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,333
Rewards Points: 1,288

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiohomedoctor View Post
I understand the rrp restraints, the additional inspection, and added costs involved, but at the end on the day there is simply not substitute for stripping it down, adding new lighting and insulation, and getting a chance to see the structure first hand.
I agree. In this case, he's going to be forced to remove the insulation and inspect the joists and original strapping/ lath from above, or he won't know where to put the screws.

I'm somewhat grateful when someone in the past strapped down and left the original plaster ceiling, it gives me a chance to restore the original ceiling. Even better are the Armstrong dropped ceilings. Ugly, but lot of times I find original crown mold still in place.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-27-2012, 10:48 AM   #15
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 23,320
Rewards Points: 1,661

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
In this case, he's going to be forced to remove the insulation and inspect the joists and original strapping/ lath from above, or he won't know where to put the screws.


A few pokes with an 8D nail will locate a joist, and from there it's once or twice per joist just to confirm whether they're uniformly on center across the span.

Still way faster and cleaner than stripping everything.
Tinstaafl is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #16
Pro
 
aptpupil's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: oakland, ca
Posts: 2,643
Rewards Points: 1,894

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


i usually opt for repair. big wally's plaster repair followed by mesh sheeting over the entire cracking surface and skim coat. for me it's better than rerocking and all that goes into that.
i've yet to come across plaster that is so messed up that this method hasn't been sufficient, but i'm sure there are instances where that is the case. pictures might help.
aptpupil is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #17
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,333
Rewards Points: 1,288

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinstaafl View Post


A few pokes with an 8D nail will locate a joist, and from there it's once or twice per joist just to confirm whether they're uniformly on center across the span.

Still way faster and cleaner than stripping everything.
The way I do it, you have to know locations of both the joists and original strapping. I put 4 screws into the joists just to the outside of the original strapping. It takes awhile to find these probing through the ceiling, even if you're just doing the edges and mid span for each. He also needs to know he's not going to be putting a screw through a wire. If it were a ceiling between the first and second floor, I'd locate everything with a stud finder, nail and a NCV probe, and cut some small holes for any areas I have questions about, but this guy has access from the top Maybe I'm a little too careful, but I've done a bunch of these.
hdavis is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
Tinstaafl (03-27-2012)
Old 03-27-2012, 11:38 AM   #18
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,333
Rewards Points: 1,288

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by aptpupil View Post
i usually opt for repair. big wally's plaster repair followed by mesh sheeting over the entire cracking surface and skim coat. for me it's better than rerocking and all that goes into that.
i've yet to come across plaster that is so messed up that this method hasn't been sufficient, but i'm sure there are instances where that is the case. pictures might help.

I there is crown mold in place, I almost always do plaster repair. Putting 300 plaster buttons into a 120 sq ft ceiling because the keys have popped off takes a little time, and you can't exactly skim it. If it's just a cracking issue it's much faster to do a repair. My next job probably has some ceilings I'll have to take the plaster off of a ceiling or two - I'll see about posting when I get started.
hdavis is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to hdavis For This Useful Post:
aptpupil (03-27-2012)
Old 03-27-2012, 03:58 PM   #19
Registered User
 
oldhouses's Avatar
 
Trade: drywall
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 10

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


no crown molding.. So, i could install plaster washers and skim, but I still like the idea of sheetrock over the plaster and not playing with the possible lead and asbestos issues of removing and possible future cracks of the skim coat.... Has anyone installed new sheetrock over an original plaster lath ceiling with true 2x4 framing??
oldhouses is offline  
Old 03-27-2012, 04:22 PM   #20
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 23,320
Rewards Points: 1,661

Re: Drywall Over Plaster Lath


Quote:
Originally Posted by oldhouses View Post
Has anyone installed new sheetrock over an original plaster lath ceiling with true 2x4 framing??
Yes, and without issue. However, those I've done didn't have the strapping hdavis refers to. Probably a regional thing.

Advertisement

Tinstaafl is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Veneer plaster and drywall comparo UpNorth Drywall 7 12-14-2011 11:29 AM
Plaster vs drywall GridRunnerFloor Drywall 69 08-18-2011 06:05 PM
Radiant Ceiling Heat - Drywall Falling Again CliffHollen Drywall 7 04-05-2010 04:18 AM
Laminating drywall over plaster Frankawitz Drywall 13 10-13-2009 06:09 AM
Hanging Drywall on Cement or Plaster jlscas Drywall 2 02-20-2006 02:06 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?