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Old 03-23-2015, 01:08 PM   #61
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


I usually use ppg sealgrip because it's what's sold at my local store and I find it works well. I've never used the Behr primer, and have no desire to try. I've never liked their paint, and I'd rather spend my money in a local business.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:42 PM   #62
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Originally Posted by TNTSERVICES View Post
Primer and Paint serve two different functions. A good DW primer will beat most paints for prepping the surface. I would never paint a surface before priming.
If a good drywall primer will beat most paints, why not use a paint that beats most good drywall primers?
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:21 PM   #63
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


FWIW, I don't sand, so that property doesn't matter to me. I'm working in pre-78 houses, and sanding triggers RRP no matter the age of the paint.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:23 PM   #64
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


For new drywall a primer has to seal, some drywall primers are fine under flat paints but not if they have a sheen. Almost all newer homes where I repaint I end up with uniformity issues due to either cheap primer, no primer or worse PVA and cheap builders paint for the finish.

I can take a top of the line paint over new drywall and have issues, I'll be coating it several times when I should have used a high quality primer that seals.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:32 PM   #65
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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If a good drywall primer will beat most paints, why not use a paint that beats most good drywall primers?
First, what paint beats a primer? Primer and paint don't do the same thing. No way paint seals bare surfaces like primer.

Second, $$$$. Paint is way more expensive than primer. Tint the primer and save some serious cash over the course of a year.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:36 PM   #66
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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FWIW, I don't sand, so that property doesn't matter to me. I'm working in pre-78 houses, and sanding triggers RRP no matter the age of the paint.
Only if lead is present. I always require a lead test for pre 1978. No lead and RRP doesn't apply.

And if you aren't sanding then you can only be referring to recoats. That being the case then you questions concerning primer versus paint have no baring on the conversation. I'm talking bare drywall. If you are too, then RRP already applies (w or w/o sanding).
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:37 PM   #67
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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For new drywall a primer has to seal, some drywall primers are fine under flat paints but not if they have a sheen. Almost all newer homes where I repaint I end up with uniformity issues due to either cheap primer, no primer or worse PVA and cheap builders paint for the finish.

I can take a top of the line paint over new drywall and have issues, I'll be coating it several times when I should have used a high quality primer that seals.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:39 PM   #68
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Originally Posted by avenge View Post
For new drywall a primer has to seal, some drywall primers are fine under flat paints but not if they have a sheen. Almost all newer homes where I repaint I end up with uniformity issues due to either cheap primer, no primer or worse PVA and cheap builders paint for the finish.

I can take a top of the line paint over new drywall and have issues, I'll be coating it several times when I should have used a high quality primer that seals.
Agreed. I started using Guardz sealer just to get a consistent surface to start with on existing paint - it's working well for me with the patching / repaints I do. There are others out there that will work, but I went with a clear product instead of white primer. That's only for an off white, basically no color change. Everything I do for walls is eggshell, and I've done some eggshell ceilings as well.

Eggshell ceiling critical lighting flashing on new drywall drove me nuts for a while a half dozen or so years back (formulation change). PVA? Nope. Kilz Latex2? Nope. Kilz Premium? not great. I just had to keep reading and trying products, and I have some to use now, but I've decided I may as well always be looking. I just set up to handle the worst flashing case so I don't have to be switching around as much.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:45 PM   #69
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


I just finished a cape cod 2nd story room finish. Used Lowes Valspar (ppg brand?) PVA drywall primer/sealer, Valspar ceiling paint and Valspar eggshell paint&primer for walls. 3-5 days after priming, 3m blue peels ceiling paint and wall paint. I sprayed and back rolled the pva but brush cut and rolled/back roll the top coats. Could not maintain a wet edge with topcoats and even added flotrol with no help. Could not hide laps or get an even sheen. Hope to never use box store paint again.

Don't know why or what wasn't up to par but total crap.

The valspar eggshell paint&primer took 2-3 coats to cover the pva.

The valspar is $35/gallon so not cheap but it is crap. the PVA was $10/g or 40/5g.

Looking at a drywall patch, truss lift corner repair and paint, living room, den, foyer hallway/stairs/2nd floor hallway. She was using behr paint & primer-n-1 downstairs . Told her to consider using SW or BenMoore as the experience I had with valspar was poor.

Have friend who is a store manager for McCormick paints but have had adhesion problems with spackle with that too. Must be me, lol.
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Old 03-23-2015, 03:58 PM   #70
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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I just finished a cape cod 2nd story room finish. Used Lowes Valspar (ppg brand?) PVA drywall primer/sealer, Valspar ceiling paint and Valspar eggshell paint&primer for walls. 3-5 days after priming, 3m blue peels ceiling paint and wall paint. I sprayed and back rolled the pva but brush cut and rolled/back roll the top coats. Could not maintain a wet edge with topcoats and even added flotrol with no help. Could not hide laps or get an even sheen. Hope to never use box store paint again.

Don't know why or what wasn't up to par but total crap.

The valspar eggshell paint&primer took 2-3 coats to cover the pva.

The valspar is $35/gallon so not cheap but it is crap. the PVA was $10/g or 40/5g.

Looking at a drywall patch, truss lift corner repair and paint, living room, den, foyer hallway/stairs/2nd floor hallway. She was using behr paint & primer-n-1 downstairs . Told her to consider using SW or BenMoore as the experience I had with valspar was poor.

Have friend who is a store manager for McCormick paints but have had adhesion problems with spackle with that too. Must be me, lol.
PVA was your mistake. Valspar is not owned by PPG. Valspar used to be alright, coverage has a lot to do with color, base and substrate.

Don't always fault the paint, PVA is crap.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:32 PM   #71
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Could not maintain a wet edge with topcoats and even added flotrol with no help. Could not hide laps or get an even sheen.
That's why I moved from PVA. I also started having the same, huge problem doing repaints - if you had a roller track, you almost couldn't go back fast enough to smooth it out, hard to go fast enough to not have lap marks,... Existing paint was just sucking too much out, and the paint I was using wouldn't tolerate it. All of a sudden, it meant I had to look at higher solids paints, sealers, etc.

Also, some high hide flat paints now may be using a filler that creates voids in the paint film to get the high hide property. These are very porous. If I needed an eggshell and I had flat and semigloss, I could just mix the two, but I won't risk it with the new flats.
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Old 03-23-2015, 04:37 PM   #72
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


I haven't tried it, but the only thing I've heard about Valspar's paint+primer is it isn't good.

There are so many different products coming and going, I only recently started writing down the actual manufacturer's product number. It makes a difference - you can have a whole shelf of different product numbers from one brand, but only one or two you'd want to use.
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Old 03-23-2015, 08:04 PM   #73
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


So is there an answer or recommend just a few to choose from?
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Old 03-23-2015, 10:05 PM   #74
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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So is there an answer or recommend just a few to choose from?
Sealer- Gardz
Primer/sealer - coverstain - has some uses

I already posted the paint+ primer ones I've used and I'm happy with them.

Here's an article that mentions porosity wasn't evened out for 30 drywall primers they tested - they never found one that worked:

http://www.jackpauhl.com/wp-content/...The-B-Test.pdf

There is a similar test for adhesion which shows many drywall primers fail adhesion tests.

"
To summarize our experience with 32 wall primers, we have not found one wall primer to date that adheres to bare drywall using simple tape testing. Having said that, there are many wall paints that fail the same test when applied directly over bare drywall. So what exactly are we accomplishing by using a wall primer vs wall paint?
"

Last edited by hdavis; 03-23-2015 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 03-24-2015, 12:53 PM   #75
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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First, what paint beats a primer? Primer and paint don't do the same thing. No way paint seals bare surfaces like primer.

Nobody tests "sealing" that I'm aware of. The basic 2 performance tests are adhesion and flashing. Some primers are definitely better at reducing flashing than others, but none are great. No conventional ones I've tried have good adhesion. None of the 32 tested in the link I gave had good adhesion either. I already posted 2 paints that I've used that have superior adhesion and reduction of flashing, so that pretty much negates your point.

Second, $$$$. Paint is way more expensive than primer. Tint the primer and save some serious cash over the course of a year.
So, one coat of tinted primer plus 2 coats of paint, with not as good performance as 2 coats of paint? I don't see that's either cheaper or better. If I need a sealer, I use a sealer, but that's limited to repaints at the moment.

This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's easy enough to run your own tape tests and flashing tests.
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Old 03-24-2015, 01:52 PM   #76
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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So, one coat of tinted primer plus 2 coats of paint, with not as good performance as 2 coats of paint? I don't see that's either cheaper or better. If I need a sealer, I use a sealer, but that's limited to repaints at the moment.

This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's easy enough to run your own tape tests and flashing tests.
Primers seal. I would suggest reading the article you linked. On the last page it will educate you on this fact. It even says, "if the new surface isn't sealed properly".

I also didn't see any actual adhesion test data. How long did they wait to test? Zinnser 123 has a 7 day cure time.

Unfortunately this is still a matter of opinion not fact, despite your declaration and single reference.
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:53 PM   #77
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Primers seal. I would suggest reading the article you linked. On the last page it will educate you on this fact. It even says, "if the new surface isn't sealed properly".

You can argue about sealing all day - if it fails a tape test, it fails a tape test.

I also didn't see any actual adhesion test data. How long did they wait to test? Zinnser 123 has a 7 day cure time.

His adhesion tests are off in another page. I use minimum of 3 day, or manufacturer recommendation.

Unfortunately this is still a matter of opinion not fact, despite your declaration and single reference.
Think what you want, data is data and not opinion.
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:16 PM   #78
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Only if lead is present. I always require a lead test for pre 1978. No lead and RRP doesn't apply.

Yes, it still applies, but there are no special workpractices, just record keeping:

745.86 Recordkeeping and reporting requirements.

(a) Firms performing renovations must retain and, if requested, make available to EPA all records necessary to demonstrate compliance with this subpart for a period of 3 years following completion of the renovation. This 3-year retention requirement does not supersede longer obligations required by other provisions for retaining the same documentation, including any applicable State or Tribal laws or regulations.

(b) Records that must be retained pursuant to paragraph (a) of this section shall include (where applicable):

(1) Records or reports certifying that a determination had been made that lead-based paint was not present on the components affected by the renovation, as described in 745.82(a). These records or reports include:

(i) Reports prepared by a certified inspector or certified risk assessor (certified pursuant to either Federal regulations at 745.226 or an EPA-authorized State or Tribal certification program).

(ii) Records prepared by a certified renovator after using EPA-recognized test kits, including an identification of the manufacturer and model of any test kits used, a description of the components that were tested including their locations, and the result of each test kit used.

(iii) Records prepared by a certified renovator after collecting paint chip samples, including a description of the components that were tested including their locations, the name and address of the NLLAP-recognized entity performing the analysis, and the results for each sample.

I won't bother posting up the schedule of fines for not keeping records that it tested lead negative.



And if you aren't sanding then you can only be referring to recoats.

Not true. The context was sanding a primer. I don't sand any paint or primer, even if I just put it on.

That being the case then you questions concerning primer versus paint have no baring on the conversation. I'm talking bare drywall. If you are too, then RRP already applies (w or w/o sanding).
Bare drywall isn't a paint in a pre1978 house, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I'm an RRP certified renovator. I know it pretty much inside and out. I have a copy of the EPA audit handbook with fine schedules, etc. While not having lead present allows you to not follow the work practices, it does not allow you to not comply with the documentation requirements, and the vast majority of the fine schedule deals with inadequate documentation. I've just adjusted how I do a regular paint, whether it's a repaint or new drywall, so I don't trigger any record keeping requirements.

Since I addressed the new drywall painting topic, I'd say it bears on the topic.

Last edited by hdavis; 03-24-2015 at 07:26 PM.
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:53 PM   #79
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Think what you want, data is data and not opinion.
What data? The article you posted was a bunch of conclusions. There was no data. And even so, do you just believe any data? Data sets are only as good as the procedures used to arrive at that data. Data can be wrong. I think you are confusing data with facts.
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Old 03-24-2015, 07:57 PM   #80
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Re: Best Drywall Primer


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Bare drywall isn't a paint in a pre1978 house, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say there.

I'm an RRP certified renovator. I know it pretty much inside and out. I have a copy of the EPA audit handbook with fine schedules, etc. While not having lead present allows you to not follow the work practices, it does not allow you to not comply with the documentation requirements, and the vast majority of the fine schedule deals with inadequate documentation. I've just adjusted how I do a regular paint, whether it's a repaint or new drywall, so I don't trigger any record keeping requirements.

Since I addressed the new drywall painting topic, I'd say it bears on the topic.
Your indication was that if you sand RRP kicks in. If you work in the house RRP kicks in.

My point about the bare drywall is if you are installing just a 1/4 sheet of drywall you had to remove enough to qualify. So sanding or not, RRP applies.

I'm just addressing your claim that if you are painting bare drywall in a pre 19789 house RRP applies regardless of sanding.

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