Yup...wood Fired Oven - Page 11 - Masonry - Contractor Talk

Yup...wood Fired Oven

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-10-2015, 10:49 PM   #201
Pro
 
stonecutter's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 2,654
Rewards Points: 2,356

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
I had to use a spatula to slide the pies off the peel....
Using a little more bench flour when pressing out your dough ball will absorb surface moisture and prevent sticking.... or a touch more flour or (yuck) cornmeal on the peel might be the trick. Join the forum over at Pizzamaking.com...lots of good info. Or that other place......
__________________
www.thewoodfiredenthusiast.com
stonecutter is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 07-11-2015, 10:09 AM   #202
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Btw, what are you doing for your dough, making it yourself?
It's i guess the same recipe that my wife has been doing for years. It's a quick dough, we use sugar to proof the yeast. Might try an overnight dough the next time. Might try making some cheese as well and doing one of those Margharites, I think my wife would really like them
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 10:15 AM   #203
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by stonecutter View Post
Using a little more bench flour when pressing out your dough ball will absorb surface moisture and prevent sticking.... or a touch more flour or (yuck) cornmeal on the peel might be the trick. Join the forum over at Pizzamaking.com...lots of good info. Or that other place......
There is nothing on gods green earth that would make me use corn meal...good for corn bread and con muffins and that's it.

It wasn't sticking, it just wasn't sliding off on it's own, a flick of the wrist and I could get it off but also lost 1/2 the toppings. Some of it could also be that the oven is pretty high since I haven't put the stone down for the patio yet. I'm sure practise will make perfect.

The other place is your site? I check in once a week or so but there haven't been any updates recently. I'll post up there tonight. Right now I've got to go out and do the outer arch
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-11-2015, 10:34 AM   #204
Pro
 
stonecutter's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY
Posts: 2,654
Rewards Points: 2,356

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
There is nothing on gods green earth that would make me use corn meal...good for corn bread and con muffins and that's it.

It wasn't sticking, it just wasn't sliding off on it's own, a flick of the wrist and I could get it off but also lost 1/2 the toppings.
That's funny, I feel the same way about cornmeal. IMO, it completely ruins the pizza with all the grit and burnt bits...blahhh!

I think you need a touch more bench flour by the sounds of it. Practice makes perfect.
__________________
www.thewoodfiredenthusiast.com
stonecutter is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to stonecutter For This Useful Post:
dom-mas (07-11-2015)
Old 07-11-2015, 12:10 PM   #205
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 26,075
Rewards Points: 5,076

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
There is nothing on gods green earth that would make me use corn meal...good for corn bread and con muffins and that's it.

It wasn't sticking, it just wasn't sliding off on it's own, a flick of the wrist and I could get it off but also lost 1/2 the toppings. Some of it could also be that the oven is pretty high since I haven't put the stone down for the patio yet. I'm sure practise will make perfect.

The other place is your site? I check in once a week or so but there haven't been any updates recently. I'll post up there tonight. Right now I've got to go out and do the outer arch
50 50 mix of ap flour and semolina. Stuff is like ball bearings.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 01:18 PM   #206
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


We just have all purpose. It is fine, maybe I'll get some semolina at the health food store for the next time. That's pasta flour right? or is that durham?
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 05:08 PM   #207
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


The other beauty of a slotted peel is that you can flour it with whatever flour you are using very heavily, then just a couple of jiggles back and forth and it all falls out, and the pizza launches with no issues.
Tscarborough is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 09:02 PM   #208
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 26,075
Rewards Points: 5,076

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
We just have all purpose. It is fine, maybe I'll get some semolina at the health food store for the next time. That's pasta flour right? or is that durham?
Semolina is from durham.

Some grocery stores have it, any Italian food stores stock it.

Adding a pinch of corn meal to some flour to help the pizza slide on the peel isn't a crime either.

If you build your pizza fast you can do it right on the peel, but if you are slow you risk sticking, I pull from the board onto the peel. If my pizza sticks to the board a bit pull up the edge and blow under it, that lifts it up gently and forces some flour in there. Be prepared for flour to become airborn and your wife get pissed off.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post:
dom-mas (07-12-2015)
Old 07-11-2015, 09:11 PM   #209
Registered User
 
Germantown's Avatar
 
Trade: Flooring kitchen bath remodeling
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Athens,AL
Posts: 8
Rewards Points: 22

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


It may sound strange to you all but Ive been making pizza on my BGE for years and I use parchment paper to make all my pies on. I also use it to slip the pie on to the grill . A few seconds of cooking and i can slip the paper right out from beneath the pie . Its become my permanent crutch from buying a peel .
Germantown is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Germantown For This Useful Post:
dom-mas (07-12-2015)
Old 07-11-2015, 09:31 PM   #210
Contractor of the Month
 
Inner10's Avatar
 
Trade: Control Systems
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 26,075
Rewards Points: 5,076

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


I have pizza screens which are great if you need to pump out a lot of pies.
__________________
The Following User Says Thank You to Inner10 For This Useful Post: Leo G
Inner10 is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 10:08 PM   #211
Pro
 
shakey0818's Avatar
 
Trade: general contractor
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Warwick,Ri
Posts: 163
Rewards Points: 228

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Probably a stupid question but i'm going to ask it anyway.Why are pizza ovens dome shaped rather than square?
shakey0818 is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 11:34 PM   #212
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Parchment paper is great in a kitchen oven, it is ash above 550 degrees.

I use 25% semolina flour (Indian, very fine, not like the coarse available normally) in most of my doughs. It gives a very nice tooth to the dough, but I do not use it on the bench.

I also have screens and use them a lot for my preferred Neo-Neapolitan style. I make 14-16" pies, and they are too large to fit on the peel. I remove the screen after about a minute, and then cook them directly on the floor for another 2-3 minutes.

Here is a typical pizza, cooked at around 750-800 degrees for about 3 minutes, started on a screen, final diameter about 16", Italian sausage, mushroom, and onion. The dough is 75% AP, 25% semolina, maybe 1% salt, .25% ADY, cold fermented for 24-36 hours. Hydration is up around 62-63%.
Attached Thumbnails
Yup...wood fired oven-022214sausagemushonion.jpg  
Tscarborough is offline  
Old 07-11-2015, 11:47 PM   #213
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Not a stupid question at all. The problem with cooking a pizza is that you have to achieve a perfect balance between top heat and bottom heat. The floor will almost always be more conductive than the heat available from the top, so you have to design the oven such that it will equalize the heat into the pizza.

This does not matter much at lower temps, like those for bread baking, 400-500 degrees, but as you move up the scale to WFO pizza it becomes critical. Ideally, you want a fairly non-conductive floor (like low duty fire brick), and a higher rate of conductivity in the walls and ceiling.

Since this is not really practical, the next best method is to shape the dome to both focus heat and be close to the floor. The higher the temp you plan to cook at, the lower the ceiling needs to be. This allows the material of the dome to cook via indirect heat, IR.

Typical general purpose Pompeii ovens will have a ceiling that is 40-50% of the diameter of the oven while a strict Neapolitan oven will be closer to 25-30%.

They are dome shaped in general because that is the most natural form that is self supporting.
Tscarborough is offline  
Old 07-12-2015, 12:01 PM   #214
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post

If you build your pizza fast you can do it right on the peel, but if you are slow you risk sticking, I pull from the board onto the peel. If my pizza sticks to the board a bit pull up the edge and blow under it, that lifts it up gently and forces some flour in there. Be prepared for flour to become airborn and your wife get pissed off.
That might be the issue. We stretched the dough out then built the pizzas on the peel, didn't take a crazy amount of time but a minute or 2 anyway. The plan is when i get the rest of the thing finished it will be almost like an assembly line. Make the pizzas on the counter and fire them in, one can be making their pizza while the other is cooking theirs. then by the time it's down to a 4 or 5 minute pizza we can be building a larger one to finish off for the adults...or something like that. I don;t want to be building the pizzas inside that's for sure
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 05:35 PM   #215
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


I guess it's been a while since I updated. been making pies once a week or so since my last post, with varying degrees of success. All have been good, no fails, but I'm still trying to nail it.

The biggest thing has been the dough. My wife's dough is good but a little inconsistent, she doesnt measure anything and we're fine with that. Its also more of a bread dough and while good I want a more gluteny dough. I've also done Tscars dough that he has posted on his brokebrick site. I like it a lot but it is very wet and I find it very difficult to work with. The results are terrific though. I've been surfing and have found a few different recipes for neapolitan style dough, but no 2 seem even similar. One recipe had 1/3 tsp of yeast to 7.5 cups of flour and another had 1.5 tsp to 13 cups of flour (this recipe is from the same youtube channel that Stoncutter linked earlier to do with using the peel) (most recipes use weights, some use both grams and ozs making it difficult so I convert everything to fluid measurements).

Then there is water. A liter (4 cups) of water used in the recipe with 13 cups of flour, and Tscar uses 3.5 cups to 5 cups of flour...more water by weight than flour (although he uses a LOT of bench flour to make up for it). So in my reading it seems that the longer the ferment the less yeast you need for a decent rise (although in many recipes this doesn't always co-relate) and the more water the less kneading required. Also flour is obviously a big one as well. I use AP (Canadian AP has about 12% protein so is pretty good) but there are others who insist on semolina, or 00 only, it's so confusing

I'm going to try one from another youtube guy,Fidel Montoya, next week. he seems to take his pizza fairly seriously but is quite informative. Anyone else have any good recipes or food science they want to share? My fathers and my aunt and my grandmother were all bakers but my aunt is the only one still around and where she worked she had to follow recipes exactly so she never learned much about the science involved so she's not much help except with technique. It's too bad my dad was a bread guy and was always switching up styles, he knew the science quite well
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 06:40 PM   #216
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Pizza dough isn't bread dough, that is for sure. If you have a mixer, you do not need the very high hydration, I do not, so mine is wet to facilitate hand mixing, and also to provide the steam to blow up the rim.

Gluten is formed by time or by kneading, so do not do both.

Salt will kill yeast, but it also activates it, so getting that part correct is crucial. The easiest way to do it is by using dry yeast and dry salt directly into the dry flour and mixing that dry before adding water. Most Neapolitan guys add salt to the water, then flour and, if used, dry yeast. Sourdough is by far the best for flavor, but is too much work for me.

Recipes for dough do not really work, humidity and variance in flour make a big difference in the final dough. I always hold back about 25% of the water to add if needed.
Tscarborough is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 07:44 PM   #217
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
If you have a mixer, you do not need the very high hydration, I do not, so mine is wet to facilitate hand mixing, and also to provide the steam to blow up the rim.

.
That's one of the things i like about your dough. Kneading isn;t something that i find particularly stimulating. Everyone wants you to knead for 8-15 ,minutes. I think I've been kneading for a solid 5 minutes and I look up and it's only been 2...ugggh

I should add though that the fist bake that we did was my wifes wing it dough and so far they've been the best pies. She got the basics from a cook with your kids cook book about 10 years ago and hasnt looked at it in probably 7...but it;s pretty much a bread dough
__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca

Last edited by dom-mas; 10-24-2015 at 07:48 PM.
dom-mas is offline  
Old 10-24-2015, 09:18 PM   #218
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Yup...wood Fired Oven


I have made good bread from pizza dough, and vice versa, but really they are not the same. Bread normally has sugar and/or oils, and woodfired pizza dough should never have either, although kitchen oven pizza needs some sugar to facilitate maillard reactions.

WFO pizza cooks too fast and at too high a temp to be able to utilize the sugars and the oils are simply not needed.

Advertisement

Tscarborough is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Why is wood rotting ? SKC Construction 47 05-27-2018 04:50 PM
Wood Windows -- PlyGem Baltimore Carpentry 8 03-05-2014 10:12 PM
wood blasting ratherberacin Sandblasting 8 10-15-2012 05:48 PM
going over existing wood shakes davinci Windows, Siding and Doors 33 07-08-2012 07:09 PM
Cabinet for built-in oven mattsk8 Finish Carpentry 10 03-15-2010 11:14 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?