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Water In Basement

 
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:22 PM   #1
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Water In Basement


So i have a problem. We have a large custom home, 10' tall poured concrete walls. the walls were allowed to fully cure before we back filled, no stress cracks, a few vertical cracks from curing that were there before we back filled. the walls were professionally coated (not sure of product, thick black stuff, supposedly waterproof) and drainboard installed with the top finish strip, we back filled at least 5-6' up the wall with drain rock, 4" perf drain at the bottom. We are still getting a couple spots inside with moisture. Not really puddling water but you can see moisture and some streaking on the wall in a few locations. We havent really had this happen before. This is a very large multi million dollar custom home so any moisture is unacceptable.

Have you guys had any luck with coating the inside of the walls? I could dig up the exterior where we have moisture, but i dont understand how i could possibly have water coming in. The drains daylight and we do get water flowing out so i know we have positive drainage and plenty of drain rock around the foundation.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:46 PM   #2
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Re: Water In Basement


From my limited experience...

I don't think you can't paint over a crack with waterproofer and expect moisture and condensation to stay out. Should have had membrane applied to bridge the cracked areas.

From the inside, you can seal it with urethane crack injection, but it's going to have a scar (visible repair).

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Old 04-09-2019, 09:55 PM   #3
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Re: Water In Basement


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From my limited experience...

I don't think you can't paint over a crack with waterproofer and expect moisture and condensation to stay out. Should have had membrane applied to bridge the cracked areas.

From the inside, you can seal it with urethane crack injection, but it's going to have a scar (visible repair).
Wall was sprayed to waterproof after it had cured, the couple small vertical cracks were already there.

Crack injection is option, walls will be furred out so doesnt matter what it looks like.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:56 PM   #4
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Re: Water In Basement


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Old 04-10-2019, 03:55 AM   #5
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Re: Water In Basement


What type of forms were used? Did the concrete guy snap the ties off and seal them with hydraulic cement before the waterproof coating was sprayed on? Sounds to me like a drainage issue if all of the above was done correctly. What is the soil composition like surrounding the foundation? Clay or gravel, slope of the land, is it properly graded?
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:04 AM   #6
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Re: Water In Basement


Grade around house should fall 6" in the first 6'. Gutters and downspouts must be installed.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:26 AM   #7
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Re: Water In Basement


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the walls were professionally coated (not sure of product, thick black stuff, supposedly waterproof)
Unless the excavator damaged the coating during backfill, I would kick the issue to the guy that installed a "supposedly waterproof" product on the wall.

I would certainly attempt to seal it from the exterior before doing anything inside.

If that means digging it up in a few places and pulling back the dimple board to see what the condition of the coating is, so be it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:34 AM   #8
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
the walls were professionally coated (not sure of product, thick black stuff, supposedly waterproof)



Must be excavator lingo...
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:09 AM   #9
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by dave_dj1 View Post
What type of forms were used? Did the concrete guy snap the ties off and seal them with hydraulic cement before the waterproof coating was sprayed on? Sounds to me like a drainage issue if all of the above was done correctly. What is the soil composition like surrounding the foundation? Clay or gravel, slope of the land, is it properly graded?
2'x8' form panels with snap ties, waterproofed only requires the snap ties to be snapped off, and the wall/footing be clean and dry.
Soil has a lot of clay, not the best, most of the area in question was filled with 3' minus gravel. It's a large patio area so only graded at 2%.
Quote:
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Grade around house should fall 6" in the first 6'. Gutters and downspouts must be installed.
Gutters are on, slope is 2%
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:15 AM   #10
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Re: Water In Basement


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Originally Posted by tgeb View Post
Quote:
the walls were professionally coated (not sure of product, thick black stuff, supposedly waterproof)
Unless the excavator damaged the coating during backfill, I would kick the issue to the guy that installed a "supposedly waterproof" product on the wall.

I would certainly attempt to seal it from the exterior before doing anything inside.

If that means digging it up in a few places and pulling back the dimple board to see what the condition of the coating is, so be it.
Was going to call the waterproofed and see what they say, they supposedly warranty their work. Not sure how that's going to work as there is about 1000 ways to shift the blame.

Quote:
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Quote:
the walls were professionally coated (not sure of product, thick black stuff, supposedly waterproof)



Must be excavator lingo...
Excavator lingo for sure 😂, I have no idea what the product is other than its thick black, rubbery, and supposedly "waterproof"
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Old 04-10-2019, 10:05 AM   #11
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
Not sure how that's going to work as there is about 1000 ways to shift the blame.
There are not 1,000 ways to shift the blame.

The foundation is not water tight, that is a known fact.

If the areas effected are excavated back out and there is no damage to their product, then the product or installation has failed and they need to repair the installation in a manner that maintains the warranty.

If there is damage from the backfill procedure then the excavating/backfill contractor pays to have the waterproofing company make the repairs in away that maintains the warranty.

The only other option is that the coating was damaged in some other way, I've seen lumber packages dropped against foundations, as well as other things happen that can damage a wall.

You're working on a very expensive home.....
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Old 04-10-2019, 11:37 AM   #12
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Re: Water In Basement


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Unless the excavator damaged the coating during backfill, I would kick the issue to the guy that installed a "supposedly waterproof" product on the wall.
.

Thats not the right term, the spray on black tar coating is not “water proof” it is damp proof

This is my foundation and the membrane that i put on is water proof

Tar coating (damp proof)




Waterproof membrane



Insulation board (another layer of protection)



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Old 04-10-2019, 12:23 PM   #13
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermckee123 View Post
So i have a problem. We have a large custom home, 10' tall poured concrete walls. the walls were allowed to fully cure before we back filled, no stress cracks, a few vertical cracks from curing that were there before we back filled. This is a very large multi million dollar custom home so any moisture is unacceptable.

.


If water is unacceptable in this multi million dollar home,then why does it have random shrinkage cracks that were not addressed with control joints placed in their proper location during the form work ??
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:03 PM   #14
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Re: Water In Basement


I'm just guessing the excavator is getting some blame on this one. Nominally, it would be whoever did the "waterproofing", or whoever spec'd inappropriate materials or methods on the plans. If examination showed the excavator damaged the waterproofing, the excavator is on the hook.
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Old 04-10-2019, 01:23 PM   #15
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Re: Water In Basement


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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermckee123 View Post
So i have a problem. We have a large custom home, 10' tall poured concrete walls. the walls were allowed to fully cure before we back filled, no stress cracks, a few vertical cracks from curing that were there before we back filled. This is a very large multi million dollar custom home so any moisture is unacceptable.

.


If water is unacceptable in this multi million dollar home,then why does it have random shrinkage cracks that were not addressed with control joints placed in their proper location during the form work ??
Disclaimer: I'm the excavation manager, not the foreman for the job.
Simple answer is it's never been speced on plans, and it's not common practice in my area. We have talked to engineers on the issue, and was told the vertical cracks from curing are going to happen and acceptable.

I see why control joints are needed though, and we joint flatwork so why wouldn't we think about it for foundations. Thanks, I'll bring the issue up with the rest of the company.

And to answer some other questions, it's not the typical tar based "damp proofing"
It was "waterproofing" the same company also coated the interior walls bellow the garage to act as a 75,000 gallon storage tank for irrigation so hopefully we dont have issues there.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:22 PM   #16
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermckee123 View Post
Disclaimer: I'm the excavation manager, not the foreman for the job.
Simple answer is it's never been speced on plans, and it's not common practice in my area. We have talked to engineers on the issue, and was told the vertical cracks from curing are going to happen and acceptable.

I see why control joints are needed though, and we joint flatwork so why wouldn't we think about it for foundations. Thanks, I'll bring the issue up with the rest of the company.


What is a foundation wall if not a thick slab stood on edge ? Engineers / architects that miss / leave details off the drawings are just like Dr. that leave tools in you after a surgery..........the lawyers will meet them in court. Engineers are supposed to know better,that is why they are paid the big bucks.

By the way,while you are cluing them in,tell them that the bars are to be terminated on either side of the joint and a "slip " joint should be installed there to allow movement,yet allow the structural integrity of the wall to remain.

Joints in poured walls - Concrete Construction
https://www.concreteconstruction.net...96b2-dbf3-a177...
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:24 PM   #17
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Re: Water In Basement


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylermckee123 View Post
Disclaimer: I'm the excavation manager, not the foreman for the job.
Simple answer is it's never been speced on plans, and it's not common practice in my area. We have talked to engineers on the issue, and was told the vertical cracks from curing are going to happen and acceptable.

I see why control joints are needed though, and we joint flatwork so why wouldn't we think about it for foundations. Thanks, I'll bring the issue up with the rest of the company.


What is a foundation wall if not a thick slab stood on edge ? Engineers / architects that miss / leave details off the drawings are just like Dr. that leave tools in you after a surgery..........the lawyers will meet them in court. Engineers are supposed to know better,that is why they are paid the big bucks.

By the way,while you are cluing them in,tell them that the bars are to be terminated on either side of the joint and a "slip " joint should be installed there to allow movement,yet allow the structural integrity of the wall to remain.

Joints in poured walls - Concrete Construction
https://www.concreteconstruction.net...96b2-dbf3-a177...
That page isn't there, but I'm interested in learning more
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:32 PM   #18
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Re: Water In Basement


Just google joints in poured walls. It will pop up.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:39 PM   #19
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Re: Water In Basement


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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
Thats not the right term, the spray on black tar coating is not “water proof” it is damp proof

This is my foundation and the membrane that i put on is water proof

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I like your work.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:41 PM   #20
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Re: Water In Basement


Watch this,starting around minute # 8. While it is a rather homespun way to address the joint,it is do-able. There a much better propriety slip joint available.


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