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Tucking Cmu

 
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:27 PM   #21
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Re: Tucking Cmu


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Originally Posted by concretemasonry View Post
Cistern -

What is the specific code you or your engineer cited that referred that used the 12" height to define the grouting procedure.?

That certainly is very odd in comparison to all the major codes in the U.S. and Europe. Could it be a unique old state code? Could it be for something other than grout for masonry?

The requirement national standards for grouting do not include vibratory consolidation since there is no room for vibrator in a typical masonry walls. Generally, the national codes specify some sort of staged grout lifts and a provision for the grout to settle and consolidate and topping off as the excess moisture in the 8" -11" slump is absorbed by the masonry units.

I think your engineer may be referencing the incorrect code or provisions.
He took it from the ACI 530 code that is referenced in the International Building Codes. I've attached a picture of the code in my prior post....
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:32 PM   #22
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Re: Tucking Cmu


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them stinkers are on camera. They know there are a dozen CCTV cameras pointing at them, but they keep doing what they want!?
I think I know why you got a terrible job....
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:42 PM   #23
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Re: Tucking Cmu


From what I've been hearing is that 'residential' contractors simply don't do it because they have never been held to the code. The county inspects the rebar in the footing then walks away. Our remodel crosses over into a commercial type structure (but still residential), so we needed to bring in several specialists who live and breath the code on a daily basis on larger projects. <for instance, we're building a double carport over an 11' deep living space. 30' steel beams throughout 1st floor interior to open space, and a slab walk out flat deck above the carport. Those larger commercial masonry companies we've spoken to confirm a lot of residential contractors don't do it right, but they can't touch residential or help because of insurance and liabilities. So now I'm numb to "I've been doing this for 40 years, and never did that!! Lol
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Old 07-30-2017, 05:52 PM   #24
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Re: Tucking Cmu


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cistern View Post
them stinkers are on camera. They know there are a dozen CCTV cameras pointing at them, but they keep doing what they want!?
I think I know why you got a terrible job....
That's not fair. The house is historic. The cameras are to show a ffwd show/ reel of it being put together and is shared with the historic commission. (lift/ excavation/masonry/siding/windows/doors/roof/steel carport structure being erected/etc) being captured and compiled into high speed video.. Everyone knows why they are there and several incredible contractors play to them because they love what they are doing. When there are clear problems (like holes and missing mortar in joints)- guess we shouldn't look? Fwiw, I wouldn't want a contractor that has things to hide.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:05 PM   #25
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Re: Tucking Cmu


Examples of what we're doing with the cameras:
https://youtu.be/Z5lDPHo3EeY
https://youtu.be/hWNRz8JwaQw
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Old 07-30-2017, 11:54 PM   #26
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Re: Tucking Cmu


Where was the scaffolding needed???? 12" wide block can use a lot smaller slump # then a 8" deep units..... Where are the horizontal bond beams? pilasters every so often so retaining 11' of water soaked soil doesn't break the wall??????? The bed joints are bombed in, water has so many paths to the basement it is crazy ANYONE would think that wall could possibly be part of a water proof wall system-- It is like tarring the USS TITANIC, it will still leak and sink.....

YOU got what YOU PAID FOR, Man up and hire a PROFESSIONAL COMMERCIAL tuck-pointer or tear that fecal matter out. Get some men that can lay block around the rebar your silly engineer called out, Was ANY dura-wall used?????

ALL that steel doesn't do diddly without a proper sized footer and footing rebar, The SOG would need to be designed apart of the wall system, does it have adequate steel for the loads imposed on it????

The top of the walls need a continuous bond beam, most likely a two or even 3 course deep one to resist the loads imposed on the cantilevered walls or steel cross beams of proper size and spacing.

What a mess being cheap has got YOU.

When hiring subs, in trades you have no knowledge of, the most important thing is that they are honest, These clowns would have told you they haven't a clue on how to underpin a house and end up with a DRY basement that won't crack or fail.... If they where honest....

You knew prior to leaving these workers unsupervised they wouldn't comply with all the contract provisions, yet still allowed them to work with out supervision.....
I suggest you reread the code regarding the parts of masonry rules that require CONSTANT supervision and testing.

Any low bid > 25% less then the next higher one is most likely by corner cutting crook. or fool. Or they missed a massive component, Civil law doesn't expect incompetent bidders to perform competently, leaving the dummies/cheapskates that excepted their bids liable for their failures. Will you be able to slough off your liability onto a greater cheapskate owner?
Please post on how this hot mess end up.

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 07-31-2017 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 07-31-2017, 06:25 AM   #27
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Re: Tucking Cmu


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Originally Posted by Fouthgeneration View Post
Where was the scaffolding needed???? 12" wide block can use a lot smaller slump # then a 8" deep units..... Where are the horizontal bond beams? pilasters every so often so retaining 11' of water soaked soil doesn't break the wall??????? The bed joints are bombed in, water has so many paths to the basement it is crazy ANYONE would think that wall could possibly be part of a water proof wall system-- It is like tarring the USS TITANIC, it will still leak and sink.....

YOU got what YOU PAID FOR, Man up and hire a PROFESSIONAL COMMERCIAL tuck-pointer or tear that fecal matter out. Get some men that can lay block around the rebar your silly engineer called out, Was ANY dura-wall used?????

ALL that steel doesn't do diddly without a proper sized footer and footing rebar, The SOG would need to be designed apart of the wall system, does it have adequate steel for the loads imposed on it????

The top of the walls need a continuous bond beam, most likely a two or even 3 course deep one to resist the loads imposed on the cantilevered walls or steel cross beams of proper size and spacing.

What a mess being cheap has got YOU.

When hiring subs, in trades you have no knowledge of, the most important thing is that they are honest, These clowns would have told you they haven't a clue on how to underpin a house and end up with a DRY basement that won't crack or fail.... If they where honest....

You knew prior to leaving these workers unsupervised they wouldn't comply with all the contract provisions, yet still allowed them to work with out supervision.....
I suggest you reread the code regarding the parts of masonry rules that require CONSTANT supervision and testing.

Any low bid &gt; 25% less then the next higher one is most likely by corner cutting crook. or fool. Or they missed a massive component, Civil law doesn't expect incompetent bidders to perform competently, leaving the dummies/cheapskates that excepted their bids liable for their failures. Will you be able to slough off your liability onto a greater cheapskate owner?
Please post on how this hot mess end up.
A few things...
How is it you assume we took the cheapest bid? We most certainly did not. There is a GC on the project that hired the company. The bids for the work were across the board mostly even and he was absulitley not the cheapest. We are imstalling a standing seam roof, impact resistant windows and doors, have went out of our way to bring in additional crews and equipment at our expense to keep the project moving. Show me where I said we hired cheap in my comments?

Of course the footings were not only adequately sized, they were oversized in areas and do have 3 (#4) horizontal rebar with #6 tied perpendicularly under them with the correct spacing. Psi of footings were tested and exceeded the strength within 7 days. Mix designs are being checked as well as strength on grout and random slump on mortar and grout. Who happily hired the company to manage the masonry work to help them out with code? We did. At our expense initially (until now when the masonry company keeps purposefully doing things wrong) , because despite whatever chip you might have on your shoulder and want to project your shortcomings on your customers- it isn't about the money for us. We most certainly did try and get commercial installers to bid and subsequently pick up the work. They CAN'T as I stated before. They do not have the insurances to cross over into residential work, try and get past any secretary for a commercial contracting company, they are bulldogs and hang up on residential.

Yes, we have a 'commercial' structural engineer who designed the footings and cmu wall strength based on loads of the project, depth of the basement, etc. as you would know, the steel companies do the initial renderings for what they propose, then both our architect and engineer sign off on the plans.

Again with the grout... let this (in your mind) cheap homeowner explain it to you this way... the slump of the grout has LESS to do with its ability to fill the cell than it has to do with what the cmu wall absorbs out of it as it cures over the next x days.

I feel sorry for those you did work for where you felt you could go against code otherwise they (the customers) were being "cheap" because it meant more work for you to do it correct. Perhaps if those on the titanic followed procedures, it wouldn't have sunk.
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Old 07-31-2017, 04:13 PM   #28
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Re: Tucking Cmu


Sloppy work, sometimes I do not tool the joints however I don't leave any holes and I always brush the wall, it takes like two seconds and it looks so much nicer. Even if they're using a membrane coating, a nice smooth wall makes it easier to apply the membrane. I have too much pride to leave **** work like that


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Old 07-31-2017, 05:48 PM   #29
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Re: Tucking Cmu


I don't tool the back side of a wall, but we flush cut and brush. When we get the wall finished, we clean the footings off...both sides.

When finished...we rub the walls down with a rubbing block.

Smooth walls are easier to waterproof and look a lot better until you do.
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Old 07-31-2017, 06:45 PM   #30
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Re: Tucking Cmu


Cistern @ # 27:
1. So your GC never lies to you about anything? If you aren't the owner, how are your services adding value to the end owner?

2. If you paid the going Sq. Ft costs you got took.... or you went cheap( your GC lied, and went cheap, keeping the difference, or rigged the bidding with a vest-pocket sub....) Only a 9 cent outfit would grout several truck loads of grout on a single plank....

The results are proof of either cheap or incompetent masons, the incompetent should have been fired day one for failure to work to specs.

3. "Oversized in Areas"..... yet another indication of wasteful low grade help and leadership, So are the "undersized in some areas?" Averages DON'T work on footing loads....

4. It appears to me that your M.O. is to have as many subs and generals along with the testing company as a "circle of blame" to explain away your serial management failures in the trade. Are you a vampire and own NO mirrors?

5. I am projecting a little here, Most likely the commercial Masonry outfits know of you and your reputation.... the insurance fairy tail was a variety of lie to have you quit bugging them for a bid.

6. I am so proud of your understanding of one facet of successful grouting, adequate bleed water, you appear to be a match book cover expert, knowing deeply the one line of rules created for masses that don't know when it is safe to deviate from them.

Where are the horizontal rebar/ bond beams/durawall? Your wall is weak between the vertical rebar. with horizontal bars, much less, smaller bars could have been used. Even two bars in the same cell spread out to the edge of the cells would create a massive increase in the walls strength at NO cost.

Did the concrete mason install j-hooked starter vertical bars to maximize the capacity of the wall? are the top bars j-hooked into the top bond beam for max strength?

You can pity me all you want, I never had a job go so far South on my watch.

Maybe it is time to move to another trade? Something where society has MORE wealth when you are done at the end of the day?
Like the plans, execution not so much...

Spy cams and you STILL lost control of the building procedures, What you do?go on vacation for a month?

9.? the last paragraph I'll just write off to stress, At best it appears you are confusing me with your rat Masons YOU HIRED.

Don't worry, working for a serial failure isn't on my bucket list...

One difference between journeymen and Masters of a trade, is the Masters can safely break the rules because he knows them inside and out, and the real world physics/chemistry underneath them.

So, you are the HO and a building contractor of some sort?

I'd suggest you sharpen your management saw a little. and less time blaming others on the Net....

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 07-31-2017 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 07-31-2017, 06:49 PM   #31
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Re: Tucking Cmu


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Originally Posted by Windycity View Post
Sloppy work, sometimes I do not tool the joints however I don't leave any holes and I always brush the wall, it takes like two seconds and it looks so much nicer. Even if they're using a membrane coating, a nice smooth wall makes it easier to apply the membrane. I have too much pride to leave **** work like that


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They had to grind out the loose mortar and take the cracked
Mortar to 1/2" where they repointed. It's in the spec book to have the non exposed joints struck and brushed. It's also on there to repoint cracked, loose or miss Mg mortar.. More importantly the cmu was to be laid on a correct bed of mortar- which by the gaps and cracks didn't happen. They spent most of the day fixing it and will do it as they go every other course moving forward.

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