'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls - Masonry - Contractor Talk

'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

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Old 10-24-2018, 06:38 PM   #1
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'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

We're about to start stone installation on some ICF retaining/garden walls. Material of choice is a granite 'planking' (granite), which comes in random lengths, 4", 7' and 10" widths, by 3" thick.
The original plan was to lay this product horizontally, in long linear courses.
The new plan is to install the stone vertically.
Because of the varying widths of the stones, it will be pretty rare that the edge of a stone aligns nicely with the plastic ribs embedded in the ICF walls which will make the consistent use of wall ties difficult to say the least.
My thought is to treat this installation as similar to an adhered veneer. So I'm thinking expanded metal lathe peppered with many, many screws, followed by scratch coat and premium exterior thin-set for 'glue'. (the stone is all sawn and guaged with a nice flat 'back')
These are Garden walls, there will be irrigation. We are in Ontario, Canada and get a pretty decent shot of winter with plenty of freeze/thaw action.

A couple of questions;
Am I on the right track? and if so, would you also include a 'rain-screen product between ICF and metal lathe/scratch coat?
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:45 PM   #2
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

Bytor have you considered SS biskuits with wallties where allowed?


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Old 10-25-2018, 03:08 AM   #3
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

A rain screen product that terminates into the Dampproof course flashing would add years/decades?

Give up on hitting the plastic foam positioners for most of the stone anchors, Either pony up for "Posi-style" style Tapcon screws with a special eyelets you can pull various 3/16" ths galvanized wire loops through,


Or cheaper but not as handy, regular tapcons, 2.75" or 3.25" long for 2" thick ICF.... and corrugated wall ties. 1/4" screws having more bending resistance, you can sleeve the tapcons with some SS or galvanized tubing for added off axis strength.

A 4" thin diamond bladed grinder grinding recesses, and stainless washers let into two adjacent stone have the advantage of holding the units in position while the mortar cures.....JBM's method.
Or you can fasten each rock like a wood floor board.

Love to see the finished product.
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Old 10-25-2018, 07:31 AM   #4
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

Not an adhered application, going to have to tie it somehow.
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Old 10-25-2018, 09:42 AM   #5
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

Let the "genius" who came up with the "brilliant" idea to lay the stones vertically spec. the means and methods and accouterments of installation. Why take on the risk of a failure to tarnish your reputation and damage your check book down the line ?

There are plenty of examples to support the age old adage "no good deed goes unpunished".
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Old 10-25-2018, 11:06 AM   #6
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

I would really question the use of ICF in that application, but I know it's not your call. I agree that adhered veneer is not the way to go, some type of mechanical anchoring is needed. My lowest budget idea is stone set with 3" cavity, some type of reinforcement in cavity tied to concrete (maybe driveway wire), and corrugated ties in grinder slots in stone bed and looped around reinforcement. Cavity is filled with concrete after the fact. Veneer could be braced if necessary depending on height.

To be clear, I mean ties are slotted into the stone itself in the head joint (which should be the bed joint).

Last edited by artisanstone; 10-25-2018 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 10-25-2018, 12:16 PM   #7
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Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

Don't forget the 3x + change order....

what is the coping going over the granite face and the top of the garden Wall???? More saw cutting????

Further thought suggest using pins that drop into slots ground into the top end near the top of the wall stones that go between two rocks through a SS strap half-twist anchor tapconed to the TOP of the wall.

Or 1/4 " expansion wedge bolt anchors allow the nut to used as adjustment for in and out speeding production with L - shaped anchor straps.

Next time Oil the foam forms and demo them....


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