'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls - Masonry - Contractor Talk

'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-24-2018, 06:38 PM   #1
Stonemason
 
bytor's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 646
Rewards Points: 636

'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


We're about to start stone installation on some ICF retaining/garden walls. Material of choice is a granite 'planking' (granite), which comes in random lengths, 4", 7' and 10" widths, by 3" thick.
The original plan was to lay this product horizontally, in long linear courses.
The new plan is to install the stone vertically.
Because of the varying widths of the stones, it will be pretty rare that the edge of a stone aligns nicely with the plastic ribs embedded in the ICF walls which will make the consistent use of wall ties difficult to say the least.
My thought is to treat this installation as similar to an adhered veneer. So I'm thinking expanded metal lathe peppered with many, many screws, followed by scratch coat and premium exterior thin-set for 'glue'. (the stone is all sawn and guaged with a nice flat 'back')
These are Garden walls, there will be irrigation. We are in Ontario, Canada and get a pretty decent shot of winter with plenty of freeze/thaw action.

A couple of questions;
Am I on the right track? and if so, would you also include a 'rain-screen product between ICF and metal lathe/scratch coat?
bytor is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 10-24-2018, 06:45 PM   #2
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,638
Rewards Points: 9,844

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


Bytor have you considered SS biskuits with wallties where allowed?

Advertisement

JBM is offline  
Old 10-25-2018, 03:08 AM   #3
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,397
Rewards Points: 8,581

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


A rain screen product that terminates into the Dampproof course flashing would add years/decades?

Give up on hitting the plastic foam positioners for most of the stone anchors, Either pony up for "Posi-style" style Tapcon screws with a special eyelets you can pull various 3/16" ths galvanized wire loops through,

http://www.heckmannbuildingprods.com...solutions.html



Or cheaper but not as handy, regular tapcons, 2.75" or 3.25" long for 2" thick ICF.... and corrugated wall ties. 1/4" screws having more bending resistance, you can sleeve the tapcons with some SS or galvanized tubing for added off axis strength.

A 4" thin diamond bladed grinder grinding recesses, and stainless washers let into two adjacent stone have the advantage of holding the units in position while the mortar cures.....JBM's method.
Or you can fasten each rock like a wood floor board.

Love to see the finished product.
__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....
Fouthgeneration is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-25-2018, 07:31 AM   #4
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,344
Rewards Points: 1,456

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


Not an adhered application, going to have to tie it somehow.
Tscarborough is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tscarborough For This Useful Post:
fjn (10-25-2018)
Old 10-25-2018, 09:42 AM   #5
Pro
 
fjn's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,065
Rewards Points: 10,816

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


Let the "genius" who came up with the "brilliant" idea to lay the stones vertically spec. the means and methods and accouterments of installation. Why take on the risk of a failure to tarnish your reputation and damage your check book down the line ?

There are plenty of examples to support the age old adage "no good deed goes unpunished".
fjn is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to fjn For This Useful Post:
cdkyle (01-24-2019), Fouthgeneration (10-25-2018)
Old 10-25-2018, 11:06 AM   #6
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


I would really question the use of ICF in that application, but I know it's not your call. I agree that adhered veneer is not the way to go, some type of mechanical anchoring is needed. My lowest budget idea is stone set with 3" cavity, some type of reinforcement in cavity tied to concrete (maybe driveway wire), and corrugated ties in grinder slots in stone bed and looped around reinforcement. Cavity is filled with concrete after the fact. Veneer could be braced if necessary depending on height.


To be clear, I mean ties are slotted into the stone itself in the head joint (which should be the bed joint).

Last edited by artisanstone; 10-25-2018 at 11:10 AM.
artisanstone is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to artisanstone For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (10-25-2018)
Old 10-25-2018, 12:16 PM   #7
Pro
 
Fouthgeneration's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Middle
Posts: 2,397
Rewards Points: 8,581

Re: 'Thick-veneer' Garden Walls


Don't forget the 3x + change order....

what is the coping going over the granite face and the top of the garden Wall???? More saw cutting????

Further thought suggest using pins that drop into slots ground into the top end near the top of the wall stones that go between two rocks through a SS strap half-twist anchor tapconed to the TOP of the wall.

Or 1/4 " expansion wedge bolt anchors allow the nut to used as adjustment for in and out speeding production with L - shaped anchor straps.

Next time Oil the foam forms and demo them....

Advertisement

__________________
I might be an Idiot, but I know things that You don't: Please wait till after you get my know-how to insult me....
Fouthgeneration is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chicago Cut Brick Veneer Installation sokoleoko Masonry Picture Post 6 05-28-2015 02:50 AM
Insulating Walls - what if ???? power Insulation 6 03-08-2013 10:12 AM
8' x 10' Living Roof Garden Shed dmhes06 Landscaping 13 08-09-2012 10:43 PM
here's a painting price list...... Jer44 General Discussion 9 02-17-2009 08:30 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?