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Mortar Question

 
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:14 AM   #1
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Mortar Question


Hey guys, working on my ICF pool, along the back side i want to stack a 2 foot wall of brick to make a retaining wall/waterfall, i have to lift the initial row about an inch off the poured concrete from the icf, a) to level it b) to lift it above my liner track. This wall im stacking will weigh about 6200lbs spread across 32ft, is type s mortar suitable to build up that
initial inch under that amount of weight? I currently have type s at home because im using it for my pool coping around the rest of the pool, open to suggestions or ideas? Thanks !
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Old 06-25-2019, 04:39 PM   #2
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Re: Mortar Question


I would rather just cut the first row of brick than make a one inch mortar bed.

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Old 06-25-2019, 05:31 PM   #3
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Re: Mortar Question


Not an option, i need to do it a) to level the existing concrete top so the bricks not wavy as ****, b) to raise it above my liner track as i want it to overhang into the pool
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Old 06-25-2019, 06:15 PM   #4
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Re: Mortar Question


I'm with NYCB..


. For example, 3/4-inch-wide mortar bed joints produce only half the flexural strength and compressive strength of 3/8-inch-wide mortar joints, according to Tables 5-6 and 5-12 of Recommended Practice for Engineered Brick Masonry, published by the Brick Institute of America (BIA). Thus, width of bed joints should be at least 1/4 inch to permit proper tooling and no more than 1/2 inch to provide adequate strength.ASCE 6-88, Specification for Masonry Structures, provides for head joint widths from 1/8 to 1/4 inch and bed joints from 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick.
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Old 06-25-2019, 08:47 PM   #5
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Re: Mortar Question


They sell half height bricks.
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Old 06-25-2019, 09:03 PM   #6
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Re: Mortar Question


the issue isnt the height of the brick, the issue is the wall isnt level that i can just start stacking. cutting bricks or half bricks isnt a solution, the bricks are 12" wide x 8" deep and 4" high. i need to level the first row before i continue to build up the wall and im trying to ask if type s mortar will hold the 6000lbs ive mentioned or if there if a stonger product available.

you mentioned a 1/2" bed is maximum and i can work with that. 1 " i mentioned was approximate.

******So what is the best mortar to lay 6000 lbs on in a 1/2" thickness?*******
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Old 06-25-2019, 10:25 PM   #7
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Re: Mortar Question


Probably Portland and sand 3 to 1.
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Old 06-26-2019, 12:43 AM   #8
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Re: Mortar Question


Use some Stainless chicken wire as a mesh or some stain less dura-wall wire to re-enforce the thick joint.

6200/32 feet = 193.75 pounds a foot or ~16 1/7th pounds per face inch.....

Divide by four inch deep material bed.....= ~4 psi

The 3 tons will cause a little differential settlement, 1/16" to maybe 1/2" on total crap subsoil.

Add a few pounds of Portland for more strength, a little less lime bleeding, more Portland = harder to clean, more shrink cracks, less plastic, more brittle final assembly...

Same color mortar as brick might look more like rock if wanted...

White mortar/ cement allow deeper colors. but cost more$$
Cheapskates rake gray mortar out of joints and point with colored grout....
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Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 06-26-2019 at 12:46 AM.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:33 AM   #9
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Re: Mortar Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by arudam View Post
the issue isnt the height of the brick, the issue is the wall isnt level that i can just start stacking. cutting bricks or half bricks isnt a solution, the bricks are 12" wide x 8" deep and 4" high. i need to level the first row before i continue to build up the wall and im trying to ask if type s mortar will hold the 6000lbs ive mentioned or if there if a stonger product available.

you mentioned a 1/2" bed is maximum and i can work with that. 1 " i mentioned was approximate.

******So what is the best mortar to lay 6000 lbs on in a 1/2" thickness?*******
Full brick on the low side, then find level on the high side. Cut the bricks in that course to your string line as you lay them.

Now you have a uniform mortar bed, and a level first course.


It's a pretty standard solution to thinks like uneven footing or brick ledges.
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Old 06-28-2019, 12:25 AM   #10
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Re: Mortar Question


Dry lay the first course, on shims(1/4"-5/16ths") if needed. laser level bench marks each end, snap a line ~2" up on faces of block, rip saw on 14"-20" diamond bladed table saw, You should be able to use the "waste" cut on half the wall thus, 16 good cuts = 32 usable pieces.

If you don't want a 2" high nominal first course, snap chalk line at highpoint of LOWEST block level across dry laid first course, cut all 32 pieces.


8" wide bed units are less sensitive to bed joint thickness, but Cmus will have much lower f sub m then ceramic units that test by themselves North of 10,000 psi.

Other then looking like a busted sphincter, 3/4" joints aren't an issue in my opinion...

Frost is your # 1 issue followed by corrosion of any iron or steel embeds in your walls/ floors.

If you have ANY trees or bushes you've created a labor pit till the day you fill it in for a flower bed....Save up for an automated tarp with an exit method for walk overs/ entrapped users...
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Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 06-28-2019 at 12:37 AM.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:43 AM   #11
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Re: Mortar Question


Type M mortar is stronger than S, is is probably a better option in your situation and environment. We've laid block on some pretty terrible footings through the years, laying solid block with ~1" bed joint is easy.......

I do like the idea of Dura-wall in the first joint as well.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:48 AM   #12
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Re: Mortar Question


When I moved back to mass, laying block with type n was so frustrating after using type m lol
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:55 AM   #13
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Re: Mortar Question


im still hearing cut the brick lol they are 12" wide and 8" deep folks how on earth would i cut them
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:05 AM   #14
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Re: Mortar Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by arudam View Post
im still hearing cut the brick lol they are 12" wide and 8" deep folks how on earth would i cut them


Not exactly sure of what you are trying to communicate with those numbers 12 " and 8 ". However,if the 12 " is what is called the bed depth,find a local stone supplier,they have saws that would easily cut them,just mark them out. By me there are many such yards we can call on.
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Old 06-28-2019, 07:50 PM   #15
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Re: Mortar Question


Just bed the first course in 3:1 Portland and sand, were not splitting the atom right lol
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:37 PM   #16
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Re: Mortar Question


Quote:
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im still hearing cut the brick lol they are 12" wide and 8" deep folks how on earth would i cut them
Fire up a demo saw, cut one side, flip it and cut the other.

The same solution on a bigger brick saw would also do it.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:44 AM   #17
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Re: Mortar Question


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Just bed the first course in 3:1 Portland and sand, were not splitting the atom right lol
The simple answer is often a good one.
If the joint is on the large side we sometimes bed a course or 2 of slate in as well. As slate was used as a DPC course in the past it's more than capable of taking the weight.
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Old 06-29-2019, 01:41 PM   #18
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Re: Mortar Question


if i did a 3/8-1/2" bed only for leveling the first row, type s suitable?
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Old 06-29-2019, 06:59 PM   #19
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Re: Mortar Question


How many courses you got to work with? I can fix 2" in probably 5-8 courses.
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Old 06-29-2019, 07:19 PM   #20
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Re: Mortar Question


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