Mortar Mix Recipe - Masonry - Contractor Talk

Mortar Mix Recipe

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-26-2019, 08:46 AM   #1
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Mortar Mix Recipe


Hi everyone, carpenter by trade, this work is some side work for my sister.

I'd like to understand why using masonry cement like Leigh brand they recommend 3-1 mix, but if you use portland, its 1 port, 1 lime, 6 sand.

Someone help me understand this? Oh, and the 1-1-6 comes right out of the BIA standards. As well I've seen it spec'd in other places.

Back story below.

Anyways we were going to do some re-pointing of the from of the house. Actually the whole from...why...well changed some lintels and cracked brick and some other pointing and it came out great. Even got a halfway descent color match...but you can still see it. Now some might say well a good mason could match...but in this house it would be hard. The house is 1950s vintage, and what they used was some big sand granules...I'd say concrete sand, but boy some granules are even bigger than what you would normally see, there is also a lot of black color granules, and just lots of granules exposed I guess from 70 years of weather.
john2019 is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 03-26-2019, 09:24 AM   #2
Pro
 
NYCB's Avatar
 
Trade: Concrete/Masonry
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Central NY
Posts: 1,722
Rewards Points: 530

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


So lets pretend you are doing a 50/50 mix of lime/portland and you pre-batch it. That 1:1:6 would turn into 1:3 using the pre-batch.

Advertisement

NYCB is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NYCB For This Useful Post:
Fouthgeneration (03-27-2019), hdavis (03-26-2019)
Old 03-26-2019, 09:59 AM   #3
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Thanks NYCB, I didn't realize it was just batching. Guess what I wanted to try was the 1:1:6 thinking that would give me more of the beige look I have out there now, or say sand/tan color out there. I use some TrueTone color powder got pretty close but I mean you can see it. I posted some pics of the resent mortar and some pics of what was done.

If I add a touch more sand and I ging to hurt anything? My preference is not to keep playing with the TRUETONE color









Last edited by john2019; 03-26-2019 at 10:00 AM. Reason: add pics
john2019 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-26-2019, 10:24 AM   #4
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,554
Rewards Points: 1,242

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Matching mortar is part art, part science.

Just from the pics, the original may have more cement than 1:1. It's tough to tell. Personally, I'd keep tinting it.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-26-2019, 10:37 AM   #5
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


HDAVIS...TRUE That!! I can say that I gotta hand it to you masons in the trade I always love seeing a nice mason job...It's just art! At least to me. I will also say as far as pointing...boy if I didn't have headphones in and music going I would be bored out of my mind.

So JMB I saw in another thread said something about Dragon brand being more tan.

HDavis you think more cement in original? I would have thought more sand. And yes since we are going to redo the whole front, I could tint some more samples pick one an go.

I was thinking if there is a lot of harm in maybe a 1:1:7 or if using mason cement (which around here popular brand is Leigh or Dragon) a 1:4.
john2019 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 01:25 PM   #6
Pro
 
Windycity's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,083
Rewards Points: 8,356

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Mason cement is simply premixed Portland and lime

If you use straight Portland you need to add lime for workability


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Windycity is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Windycity For This Useful Post:
concretemasonry (04-02-2019), finisher65 (04-05-2019), hdavis (03-26-2019), john2019 (03-26-2019)
Old 03-26-2019, 01:30 PM   #7
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


You can kind of match that texture if you burn the mortar with acid, depending on a few different things, one or 2 days after.
JBM is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to JBM For This Useful Post:
john2019 (03-26-2019)
Old 03-26-2019, 01:52 PM   #8
Pro
 
stuart45's Avatar
 
Trade: Brickwork
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1,047
Rewards Points: 1,232

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


You can also expose the aggregate by wacking it with a churn brush, as with a lime mortar.
Making the new joints slightly darker than the existing seems to stand out less than being slightly lighter.
stuart45 is online now  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to stuart45 For This Useful Post:
fjn (03-26-2019), hdavis (03-26-2019), JBM (03-26-2019), john2019 (03-26-2019)
Old 03-26-2019, 02:14 PM   #9
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 24,554
Rewards Points: 1,242

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by john2019 View Post
HDAVIS...TRUE That!! I can say that I gotta hand it to you masons in the trade I always love seeing a nice mason job...It's just art! At least to me. I will also say as far as pointing...boy if I didn't have headphones in and music going I would be bored out of my mind.

So JMB I saw in another thread said something about Dragon brand being more tan.

HDavis you think more cement in original? I would have thought more sand. And yes since we are going to redo the whole front, I could tint some more samples pick one an go.

I was thinking if there is a lot of harm in maybe a 1:1:7 or if using mason cement (which around here popular brand is Leigh or Dragon) a 1:4.
I'm not a mason, and there are some here that are really good at matching. In the end, you have to figure out if you want it to blend in from 5, 10, 20 feet away. Matching from a foot away is just going to be trouble.

It's easier to figure this out in person, but it looks to me based on the pics that the cement/lime combination you used (premix) isn't as gray as if you mixed the two yourself or the original mix used more cement. No way to tell.

The new stuff looks very white. The old stuff looks like it may have a grayer tone. If that's the case, you can add a little black colorant to get your premix a little closer. Do some tests, and see what it does from 5 feet, or whatever distance you think is right.
hdavis is online now  
Old 03-26-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


JBM yeah seems I'm at the kinda stage for really maxing the texture. The whole house has more of a beige/tan existing mortar color...the color looks more like the second two pics, maybe it was the sun or the camera, that made the first and last pics look more grey.

Any issue with going with a 1:1:7...I actually did a sample last year with Lehigh light mortar Type N and instead of adding 3 sand I added 5...Got the color better but not sure by how much that weekend the mix strength.

HDavis...yeah its the lighting outside I guess mortar is a tan/beige color...you see that color all over the place in Boston on the older homes versus the grey mortar color.

JBM...you like the muriatic or prosoco 600 for cleaning?
john2019 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 03:21 PM   #11
Pro
 
Windycity's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,083
Rewards Points: 8,356

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by john2019 View Post
JBM...you like the muriatic or prosoco 600 for cleaning?


I know you didnt ask me but all i have to say is that.......


Muriatic cheaper!

LOL





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Windycity is online now  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Windycity For This Useful Post:
hdavis (03-26-2019), john2019 (03-26-2019)
Old 03-26-2019, 04:20 PM   #12
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


WindyCity...yes I guess around here a jug of Prosoco 600 is mid/high teens.

Is there a masons cleaning preference though??
john2019 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 04:26 PM   #13
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


I use muriatic.

If you use 3 concrete sands , it'll make it rougher.
JBM is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 06:09 PM   #14
Pro
 
fjn's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,170
Rewards Points: 11,202

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


I'll give Andy a little air time with his churn brush.

fjn is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 07:45 PM   #15
Registered User
 
john2019's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 14
Rewards Points: 40

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


JBM - yeah I'll do a few samples with concrete sand, last year I messed with it I found that it didn't pick up with the pointer as well as regular mason sand.

Muriatic what concentrate do use use? I used the prosoco 600 last year and if you didn't hit the brick basically the next day, 600 really didn't work all that great. Whats your time frame for clean up with the acid? a day or two or can it be longer?

FJN...thanks for the video...I'm going to do a samples with that method and see how it looks
john2019 is offline  
Old 03-26-2019, 08:10 PM   #16
Pro
 
Windycity's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: chicago
Posts: 2,083
Rewards Points: 8,356

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by john2019 View Post
JBM - yeah I'll do a few samples with concrete sand, last year I messed with it I found that it didn't pick up with the pointer as well as regular mason sand.

Muriatic what concentrate do use use? I used the prosoco 600 last year and if you didn't hit the brick basically the next day, 600 really didn't work all that great. Whats your time frame for clean up with the acid? a day or two or can it be longer?

FJN...thanks for the video...I'm going to do a samples with that method and see how it looks


Sooner the better for washing and yea 600 detergent is ok but muriatic gets the job done easier, probably why its still commonly used

I start mild (20%) and increase the strength as needed

Most masons dont wash their work....they sub it out




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Windycity is online now  
Old 03-26-2019, 08:37 PM   #17
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by john2019 View Post
JBM - yeah I'll do a few samples with concrete sand, last year I messed with it I found that it didn't pick up with the pointer as well as regular mason sand.

Muriatic what concentrate do use use? I used the prosoco 600 last year and if you didn't hit the brick basically the next day, 600 really didn't work all that great. Whats your time frame for clean up with the acid? a day or two or can it be longer?

FJN...thanks for the video...I'm going to do a samples with that method and see how it looks
Stuart's method is less of a pain but seeing as your not a Mason I suspect an acid bath would do you some good.

Just add a little more powder so it sticks better.

If it's dry and warm a half a gallon of muriatic to 4 gallons of water should burn the joints. If that's important. Personally it causes 20 years of errosion the next day.
JBM is offline  
Old 03-27-2019, 02:15 AM   #18
Pro
 
stuart45's Avatar
 
Trade: Brickwork
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 1,047
Rewards Points: 1,232

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by john2019 View Post
JBM - yeah I'll do a few samples with concrete sand, last year I messed with it I found that it didn't pick up with the pointer as well as regular mason sand.
Mix it 50/50 with building sand and leave it longer to mix up in the mixer to get a bit more air into it.
stuart45 is online now  
Old 04-02-2019, 08:35 PM   #19
Pro
 
Tscarborough's Avatar
 
Trade: Monkey Scratching Cat Herder
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 6,346
Rewards Points: 1,460

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


That will be concrete sand, not masonry. Get the color match half ass and when it is done and set, rub dirt on it. Seriously, that is the best way to match it up.
Tscarborough is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tscarborough For This Useful Post:
concretemasonry (04-24-2019), Fouthgeneration (04-03-2019)
Old 04-05-2019, 12:18 PM   #20
Pro
 
NYCB's Avatar
 
Trade: Concrete/Masonry
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Central NY
Posts: 1,722
Rewards Points: 530

Re: Mortar Mix Recipe


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
That will be concrete sand, not masonry. Get the color match half ass and when it is done and set, rub dirt on it. Seriously, that is the best way to match it up.
My go to for artificial aging to match is black coffee.

Advertisement

NYCB is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to NYCB For This Useful Post:
fjn (04-08-2019)


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Is Hydraulic Mortar All It Claims To Be ? fjn Masonry 12 06-28-2016 06:50 PM
Identifying Lime Mortar. Can it be repointed with Type N? yourfriend Masonry 79 08-21-2013 08:07 PM
Fixing this rock shed topps Masonry 43 02-23-2013 10:56 PM
Roof rafters, floor joists. Wood to mortar contact. Baltimore Masonry 16 08-04-2012 02:58 PM
Mortar in Fireplace doors 6stringmason Masonry 8 07-12-2012 08:23 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?