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Industrial Chimney Designs?

 
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Old 01-28-2015, 02:02 AM   #1
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Industrial Chimney Designs?


Hey superseal and hopefully others. I need to make a industrial brick chimey.

I need a chimney for my clamp kiln. As development moves on my kiln is almost in suburbs. There are no complaints yet but am sure they will come. I also want to reroof with a brick vault (of course). I changed recently to using the waste of biofuel (jatropha) for my fuel source and the escaping gas is smelly as compared to charcoal dust and wood.

In addition I would like to pump the exhaust back into the kiln at times as there is sometimes a fair amount of smoke (= gas). In that way round might not be easy for me to close off.

So does anyone have any experience with industrial chimney design and construction? Of course i am reading what I can also.

The kiln is 10m x 8m (32x25 ft). the bricks are loaded inside walls 10ft high. the kiln is on the bottom of a slope and i would really like to go +50 feet. the chimney would be off to the side.

Metal would corrode within a year. (20 years ago i temporarily put corrugated sheets on the roof and it lasted 8 months.)

I will eventually get an engineer but currently all industrial chimneys in my town are metal so not an skill here, engineer will help after i hae a design idea. I have lots of reject brick.
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Old 01-31-2015, 01:00 AM   #2
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Early Audels have a chapter on industrial chimneys...

Size would be determined by kilos of fuel burned an hour =so many cubic meters of exhaust @ *** degrees C. I'd install an oxygen sensor to reduce fuel waste.
Wouldn't laying out the kiln yard so the chimney can serve multiple clamps save much regrets later....provision for over fire air to reduce visible smoke/smell might pay.

how can you compete with a counterflow continuous kilns... they must use a tiny fraction of the energy you waste.

Make sure foundation takes in to account wind loads and seismic loads.

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Old 04-05-2016, 11:43 PM   #3
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


The moment I waited for , and not always with confidence. I winged it and just kept bernouelli principal and stack effect in mind.

Industrial Chimney designs?-img_20160405_150337.jpg

It took a few hours for the draw to start.

I am still contemplating raising some more.

I have to seal the vault over the kiln as you can see get seepage. Most of what you see is actually steam.

More pictures in the picture section
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Old 04-07-2016, 07:36 PM   #4
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


What if you corbeled out up top to give more of an opening for the wind to suck the smoke out. Venturii needs to tighten then open to force draw no?
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:51 AM   #5
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


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Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
What if you corbeled out up top to give more of an opening for the wind to suck the smoke out. Venturii needs to tighten then open to force draw no?
Corbelled out side the chimney? and made opeing bigger? I have Venturii at the bottom of the chimney, the opening is smaller than the horizontal cross section of the inside of chimney. And there is a chamber below the the opening. Once the chimney is warm then it draws well.
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Old 04-08-2016, 05:27 AM   #6
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Not the kiln opening, the chimney top opening. Make the opening at the top of the chimney bigger so that as wind passes across it can suck more smoke out. The wind passing across the top of the chimney creates a lot of the draught which is why sheltered chimneys and short chimneys don't work well
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Old 04-08-2016, 07:21 AM   #7
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
Not the kiln opening, the chimney top opening. Make the opening at the top of the chimney bigger so that as wind passes across it can suck more smoke out. The wind passing across the top of the chimney creates a lot of the draught which is why sheltered chimneys and short chimneys don't work well
duh yup. got it now.
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Old 04-08-2016, 06:05 PM   #8
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


I disagree,the top should be smaller,not bigger. Look at these photographs,if they do not get smaller,they remain the same in dimension.



https://www.google.com/search?q=indu...w=1366&bih=643
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Old 04-09-2016, 04:48 AM   #9
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Think Three mile Island condenser towers... depends on heat loss to masonry shrinking volume of gas (V = P x T).

Taller chimneys will have a cold draw just from the difference in wind speed at grade and the top....

Just a wild a#$ guess, but I think you are oversizing your chimney for maximum fuel economy, the over drawing of air costing money through added fuel costs in my opinion. maybe some sort of metal cap/throttle plate?

All the Brick clamp Kilns around here were demoed Post WWII-Korea era. the guys that knew, are long gone. There are two big plants with two each Robotic(the robot handlers replaced ~25 stackers each line) French Tunnel kilns that can produce about 100,000 brick a day each of modular brick with cores, Only two or three ever run since the depression started in 2008. With N Gas their unit costs was posted as 15.9 cents per modular brick, at yard about 3 years ago, gas is quite a bit cheaper now.

The 15.9 cent units were being sold for about 35 cents retail at the yard.

Last edited by Fouthgeneration; 04-09-2016 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:28 AM   #10
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by fjn View Post
I disagree,the top should be smaller,not bigger. Look at these photographs,if they do not get smaller,they remain the same in dimension.



https://www.google.com/search?q=indu...w=1366&bih=643
I don't think a bigger top will help...I'm thinking like fourth and damper down or perhaps a big cap to aid against downdrafts.

Those tapered smokestacks were so on the exterior only ( I think) like the lighthouse job I did...massive thick walls at the base to get gradually thinner as it rises...internal remains the same. Only speculation on my part however.

A round flue will function better if it's draft you're looking for.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:38 AM   #11
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Take a look at any venturi, the tightest part is in the middle

http://www.flowmaxx.com/venturi.htm
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:55 AM   #12
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
Take a look at any venturi, the tightest part is in the middle

http://www.flowmaxx.com/venturi.htm




That is true,however,do not most clay chimney pots taper and thereby reduce the flue size ? Also,is it not true that the consensus agrees clay pots enhance chimney draw ?
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:18 AM   #13
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


likely because they increase height. Also they would provide a narrowing since many older chimneys have zero tightening at the throat.

If he doesn;t have a narrowing of any sort in the chimney there won;t be any venturi effect. he says that he does so maybe widening at the top won;t help, but it will still allow the wind to "scoop" more air out. It's like blowing across a jug...it isn;t just the size and shape of the jug that makes the sound but the opening as well.

He says he has lots of brick and his mortar isn;t cement based so it wouldn;t be a difficult or expensive test nor would it be difficult or expensive to take it down
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:47 AM   #14
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Quote:
Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post

He says he has lots of brick and his mortar isn;t cement based so it wouldn;t be a difficult or expensive test nor would it be difficult or expensive to take it down


True. This thread prompted me to do a reasonable amount of googling on the topic. I was somewhat surprised that several articles said chimney design is still a tad bit a trial and error endeavor and do some experimenting.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:26 PM   #15
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


There are so many factors to consider, but the main thing is to have the outdoors be a lower pressure than inside the chimney. Gases move from areas of high pressure to low pressure as I'm sure we all know so unless something is forcing the gas/smoke down, it will follow the path to lowest pressure. Wind is the major factor in causing a downward force and it isn't just downdraughts, it also creates pressure differentials by blowing across the opening
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:26 AM   #16
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


Oh great! more trial and error.

So in my inexperience I did not leave an opening on the wind side at the top. is that a mistake.

And now i realize maybe i should not cover the chimney, at least not during firing. So i am blocking wind blowing over the top. mistake?

dom-mas and fjn and others any thoughts?

So i will pull down the top section and build a single brick on the outside. see what a wider opening does. then i can try narrowing the inside on the next one. but it was drawing pretty well but not extracting as fast as i would of liked .
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:11 AM   #17
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


My thoughts are that once your kiln is roaring it's hot enough that the gases will want to rise no matter what shape the chimney is...it's only until it gets hot enough that you might have issues.

You want as much wind as possible to skim across the top of the chimney....UNLESS there are buildings, or trees or something else on the prevailing wind side that is taller than the chimney and will force the wind downwards as it comes towards the kiln. If you are fairly open, get the chimney as high as possible and then try opening it up a little up top. My understanding is that if you only tighten up you will still get velocity increase, but since the area is smaller you won't move anymore smoke...if you tighten up, then open up you will get the increase in velocity but it will be moving through a larger area moving more smoke. That's why a smoke shelf works...large area in the firebox, tightening at the throat which then opens up again in the chimney area.

But if you're happy with it...don;t fix it. If i had your access to materials I'd be experimenting quite a bit though
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:45 PM   #18
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Re: Industrial Chimney Designs?


It takes like 4 hours for the draft to start. I can live with that and the fire is a long ways and 2.5 m of stacked bricks to get to the chimney.

I would like it to pull more hot air out of the space between stacked bricks and vault roof on the third day onward. On the other hand that air is probably hot enough to fire bricks and maybe i should just add bricks.

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