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Old 10-26-2014, 10:26 AM   #61
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Re: I Want To Know


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I think he mopped the sub floor in this pic....

I will say that is taking it to the next level in my experience for a DC to mop after finishing. We often mop the slab after a demo, but never in my life seen a DC do it.

I felt like a rookie last week, two of my guys finished what they were doing earlier than I expected, and I hadnt prepared the list for the next thing yet (rookie mistake #1). So I sent them to put the backer board down on the sub floor of a kitchen and 4 bathrooms in the farm house remodel. It was out of order, before drywall taping, boards were hung ( he subs hanging, thats the only sub of a sub i have been able to tolerate) but the DC had to go to another job for a couple days, but I figured to drop 4 rolls of Ram Board over there for them to cover the hardie. I didnt, I got busy punching out framing and blocking for niches, ect.... at another remodel/addition and didnt make it.

I went to CE the next day, and when I went by at 7 pm, they were still floating. The hardie backer is covered in drywall mud. Had to scrape and mop the hardie.
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Old 10-26-2014, 10:33 AM   #62
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Re: I Want To Know


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I always make try to leave a job cleaner than when I got there. If you're a pig on your site then don't expect any better from me. Also chances are I won't be working for you again either! I hate messy sites!
I used to trim production tract boxes in Bastrop as a side gig on weekends when I was in commercial for a day job. Me and my partner would trim one almost every Saturday.

Anyway, they were the messiest sites I have ever seen. No dumpster, the trash was piled in front of the garage and scraped into a dump truck at the end of the job. All stain concrete floors, masonite covered. There was 6" of crap and drywall on the floors when we showed. One guy would set doors and install sills and sashes, and the other would spend the first 2 hours cutting back the masonite 6" and scraping the drywall back with a speed square. It was pathetic. Lol. Guy built about 40 a year then at that time, built in about 80 days and sold before they were finished often.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:14 AM   #63
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Re: I Want To Know


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.

And I hate the lazy ass contractor who plows that crap into the ground.
Why? What is the point in cleaning it up...and where do you stop? Tiny bit's of brick the size of a fingernail? Or maybe it's grape sized? or apple sized??? What does it matter if there is clean fill mixed in with the clean fill. You call it crap...it's not vinyl siding or any other kind of plastic or even organic waste that could break down and create voids...it's just clay and calcium...big deal And why is it lazy? Like saying why don't you vacuum out the dust from the inside of a wall?

As for some saying they cleanup completely....there were some, Stonecutter and CJ both do most of their work on existing houses (That I have seen anyway and they are also both from Connecticut so maybe a regional thing) Don't know about SoCal but he sounds like he's the exception in his area. Kniggit is in Joasis direct area and says he doesn't clean up, Brickhook does very good clean work in my opinion and he says his scrap is just piled, as did Dakzaag and JBM, 2 other guys who are very proffesional (again in my opinion) and they pile their scrap.

Joasis was asking how many cleanup and haul away completely...ALL scraps and mortar droppings etc...he's not even saying throw it in the dumpster (tipping fees could get expensive with that kind of weight), he's saying haul it away in your trailer. That I haven't seen except in a reno situation
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Old 10-26-2014, 12:10 PM   #64
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Re: I Want To Know


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Why? What is the point in cleaning it up...and where do you stop? Tiny bit's of brick the size of a fingernail? Or maybe it's grape sized? or apple sized??? What does it matter if there is clean fill mixed in with the clean fill. You call it crap...it's not vinyl siding or any other kind of plastic or even organic waste that could break down and create voids...it's just clay and calcium...big deal And why is it lazy? Like saying why don't you vacuum out the dust from the inside of a wall?

As for some saying they cleanup completely....there were some, Stonecutter and CJ both do most of their work on existing houses (That I have seen anyway and they are also both from Connecticut so maybe a regional thing) Don't know about SoCal but he sounds like he's the exception in his area. Kniggit is in Joasis direct area and says he doesn't clean up, Brickhook does very good clean work in my opinion and he says his scrap is just piled, as did Dakzaag and JBM, 2 other guys who are very proffesional (again in my opinion) and they pile their scrap.

Joasis was asking how many cleanup and haul away completely...ALL scraps and mortar droppings etc...he's not even saying throw it in the dumpster (tipping fees could get expensive with that kind of weight), he's saying haul it away in your trailer. That I haven't seen except in a reno situation
Yeah on new builds I have never seen anyone haul off their mess. Wrapping a house you could have a f350 dump full of broken brick pieces. Nonsense imo, just bury it somewhere. I leave a pile under my scaffold on my chimneys, maybe 3 piles along a veneer. If someone was building a house and wanted it removed well I would take care of it.

Some parts of the country thought the site doesnt require much to be ready for loam. Up here prepping for loam requires a bulldozer , maybe a loader and excavator. Most times a red machine that sifts the loam to remove roots and rocks. Dump trucks ect. Different mindset.
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Old 10-26-2014, 12:22 PM   #65
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Re: I Want To Know


I tend to agree with dom-mas,masonry "debris" can easily be dealt with on site,especially if the building being built is a true masonry building,not a wooden building disguised to look like it is built of a more prestigious material than mere wood.


We take all our "debris" broken brick,block,mortar piles etc. and fill the block cores so when we grout under bearing points the grout stays put.

We create more problems for ourselves and more disposal issues when we choose to not build in an authentic way.


Several years ago,a contractor friend of mine paired up with me ,we built three 1,600 sq. ft. solid masonry spec. homes side by side and never even had a dumpster on site !

There have been too numerous to mention articles in trade publications explaining how to build a home WITHOUT a need for a dumpster,that one just needs to do a little searching.


Aside from that,here is one that depicts the framing of a 60,000 sq.ft. project,please note very last photo,all the "debris" could fit in a S-10 pick-up truck !

I do not know about others I'd prefer to put the $600 in my blue jeans than hand it over to a garbage man any day.




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Old 10-26-2014, 01:06 PM   #66
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Re: I Want To Know


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Originally Posted by dom-mas View Post
Why? What is the point in cleaning it up...and where do you stop? Tiny bit's of brick the size of a fingernail? Or maybe it's grape sized? or apple sized??? What does it matter if there is clean fill mixed in with the clean fill. You call it crap...it's not vinyl siding or any other kind of plastic or even organic waste that could break down and create voids...it's just clay and calcium...big deal And why is it lazy? Like saying why don't you vacuum out the dust from the inside of a wall?

Common sense should rule the day. Don't pick up the larger bricks with the excuse where do I stop. That is the sound of laziness. I do vacuum the dust out of the walls.

As for some saying they cleanup completely....there were some, Stonecutter and CJ both do most of their work on existing houses (That I have seen anyway and they are also both from Connecticut so maybe a regional thing) Don't know about SoCal but he sounds like he's the exception in his area. Kniggit is in Joasis direct area and says he doesn't clean up, Brickhook does very good clean work in my opinion and he says his scrap is just piled, as did Dakzaag and JBM, 2 other guys who are very proffesional (again in my opinion) and they pile their scrap.

Joasis was asking how many cleanup and haul away completely...ALL scraps and mortar droppings etc...he's not even saying throw it in the dumpster (tipping fees could get expensive with that kind of weight), he's saying haul it away in your trailer. That I haven't seen except in a reno situation
Now it's too expensive to put in a dumpster? So your excuses are where do you stop in size and it's too expensive?

Why is it lazy? I can't tell you how many piers and excavation work that I have done that I ended up finding construction debris. Bricks and debris don't make good fill and end up making a yard lumpy and full of voids. It's just one of my pet peeves.

I think FJN hit the nail on the head with a solution. I just don't think that it needs to be left laying around to be plowed into the yard. It's lazy. Your excuses are reasoning is lazy, IMO.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:07 PM   #67
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Re: I Want To Know


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I tend to agree with dom-mas,masonry "debris" can easily be dealt with on site,especially if the building being built is a true masonry building,not a wooden building disguised to look like it is built of a more prestigious material than mere wood.


We take all our "debris" broken brick,block,mortar piles etc. and fill the block cores so when we grout under bearing points the grout stays put.

We create more problems for ourselves and more disposal issues when we choose to not build in an authentic way.


Several years ago,a contractor friend of mine paired up with me ,we built three 1,600 sq. ft. solid masonry spec. homes side by side and never even had a dumpster on site !

There have been too numerous to mention articles in trade publications explaining how to build a home WITHOUT a need for a dumpster,that one just needs to do a little searching.


Aside from that,here is one that depicts the framing of a 60,000 sq.ft. project,please note very last photo,all the "debris" could fit in a S-10 pick-up truck !

I do not know about others I'd prefer to put the $600 in my blue jeans than hand it over to a garbage man any day.

http://www.jlconline.com/Images/Fram...96-1087703.pdf
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:09 PM   #68
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Re: I Want To Know


I wasn't clear, I was not saying haul away, but rather pick up all full bricks and place them on a pallet, or whatever, and rake up, at least into piles, all broken pieces. We always have a dumpster on site for debris. The cost is the same for 2 tons or 5 tons.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:28 PM   #69
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Re: I Want To Know


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I wasn't clear, I was not saying haul away, but rather pick up all full bricks and place them on a pallet, or whatever, and rake up, at least into piles, all broken pieces. We always have a dumpster on site for debris. The cost is the same for 2 tons or 5 tons.
That would be my expectation.
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:09 PM   #70
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Re: I Want To Know


Always clean up. With some builders (and homeowners), you could build the Taj Mahal, and if it was a mess, that's all they'd see.

It looks professional, it's easier to walk around, and it's easier to work around.

All the great tenders/helpers/hod carriers are high energy, constant motion though, so keeping a job clean should never be a problem.....
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:18 PM   #71
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Re: I Want To Know


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Now it's too expensive to put in a dumpster? So your excuses are where do you stop in size and it's too expensive?

Why is it lazy? I can't tell you how many piers and excavation work that I have done that I ended up finding construction debris. Bricks and debris don't make good fill and end up making a yard lumpy and full of voids. It's just one of my pet peeves.

I think FJN hit the nail on the head with a solution. I just don't think that it needs to be left laying around to be plowed into the yard. It's lazy. Your excuses are reasoning is lazy, IMO.
Yes... it can be very expensive..here there is a fee for the dumpster and another fee for tipping weight, it costs more to tip a bin full of bricks than it does a bin full of insulation. Also in Joasis first post he made no mention of a dumpster.

I'm not "excusing" anything. I do what is expected of me and what the GC wants, I make no excuses for what I do. IF a GC suddenly threw a new demand at me then I wouldn't make excuses, I'd reason with him and we'd come to some sort of an arrangement.

It's no more or less work to make piles of debris for the GC to do with as he pleases than to put them in the cores of the block work. Often the

Lumpy lawns??? I guess I've never seen a flat one because plowing in the masonry waste is the practise of every builder that I have ever come across as well as the practise pf every builder in the past of a house that I have ever done foundation work on. Full of voids???? Really??? Your grasping. If you are taking about full bricks sure, that's not what any of the other bricklayers are talking about...we're talking about half bricks and smaller...say 32 cuin and smaller.

And where do I stop in size? Re-read Joasis first post he said "And I mean leave the job site clean of all brick not used, mortar splashed on the ground, all of it? " Sounds like he wants it all gone. Again..no mention of a dumpster, glad he clarified
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:47 PM   #72
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Re: I Want To Know


We always clean our job site up. Pick up is done daily, and a thorough cleaning is done Friday before we leave in case some one walks around. This way we don't look like slobs.

We also give the walls quick wash before we tear the scaffold down. I don't charge extra for this stuff.
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Old 10-26-2014, 04:49 PM   #73
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Re: I Want To Know


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We always clean our job site up. Pick up is done daily, and a thorough cleaning is done Friday before we leave in case some one walks around. This way we don't look like slobs. We also give the walls quick wash before we tear the scaffold down. I don't charge extra for this stuff.
Just to clarify I don't haul stuff away. We throw our junk in the dumpster, stack our pallets, and organize material for pick up
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:54 PM   #74
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Re: I Want To Know


I'm not a mason, but I have a guy that all he does is clean and organize. Just follow the crew around get tools out of the trailer when needed, put them back when they are done. Makes us look good when the h/o comes by unexpected and their house doesn't look like ground zero.


Now from my gc standpoint. When mechanicals are going in I don't care, after drywall is finished we clean everything. After walls have paint I expect subs to clean.

I refuse to use a mason that left a job site completely destroyed. Piles of sand and gravel everywhere. Had the concrete truck clean out in the neighbors driveway. That was a 3k back charge.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:01 PM   #75
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Re: I Want To Know


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I think he mopped the sub floor in this pic....

I will say that is taking it to the next level in my experience for a DC to mop after finishing. We often mop the slab after a demo, but never in my life seen a DC do it.

:
I don't mop the floors...I just don't drop any mud! [Just kidding] After the skim coat is complete I give the floors a once over with a push broom . I swept up today !! After the home is sanded out I shop vac the floors ,around the windows and all boxes . I also trim any router fuzz from around the doors and windows ..The trim guys love me for It .

Often I have to sweep up the wood shavings behind the hamsters before the board shows up!! The last time I did this I put It all in a trash container and dumped it in the basement under the panel box ....

BTW...I would never suggest wet mopping OSB..
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:08 PM   #76
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I don't mop the floors...I just don't drop any mud! [Just kidding] After the skim coat is complete I give the floors a once over with a push broom . I swept up today !! After the home is sanded out I shop vac the floors ,around the windows and all boxes . I also trim any router fuzz from around the doors and windows ..The trim guys love me for It .

Often I have to sweep up the wood shavings behind the hamsters before the board shows up!! The last time I did this I put It all in a trash container and dumped it in the basement under the panel box ....

BTW...I would never suggest wet mopping OSB..
Slab on grade here, second floor I use 1 1/8 tng CDX. Might switch to advantech for the next subfoor.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:13 PM   #77
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Re: I Want To Know


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I have a guy that all he does is clean and organize. .
God bless you!!
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:24 PM   #78
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I'm often on site when the yard is graded .. From what I've seen all the small brick waste is collected /raked to a pile . Then the excavator takes it off.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:30 PM   #79
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I'm not a mason, but I have a guy that all he does is clean and organize. Just follow the crew around get tools out of the trailer when needed, put them back when they are done. Makes us look good when the h/o comes by unexpected and their house doesn't look like ground zero.


Now from my gc standpoint. When mechanicals are going in I don't care, after drywall is finished we clean everything. After walls have paint I expect subs to clean.

I refuse to use a mason that left a job site completely destroyed. Piles of sand and gravel everywhere. Had the concrete truck clean out in the neighbors driveway. That was a 3k back charge.
Thats nice, dude. I tried to hire a full time roustabout recently, it didn't work out. I hired a dude part time that is on the VFD with me, he works 35 hours for someone else. He is about to move to the coast to be a paid FF. He has been doing 3 5's for me. He has gathered and delivered some materials and done some clean up, but mostly he has been confiscated by the old man to remove brush and bushes and flower beds from his new place we are remodeling

We all end up doing clean up, I clean crap up all the time.

To who ever said do you vacuum dust out of the wall cavities, yes. You are supposed to, right before insulation or Bora Care.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:32 PM   #80
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Slab on grade here, second floor I use 1 1/8 tng CDX. Might switch to advantech for the next subfoor.
I love walking a bucket on the advantech !!! It can get rained on a few times without puffing up . It's also a joy to vac up !

You can't spit on the dollar store OSB without the joints swelling up.
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