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I Want To Know

 
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:07 AM   #1
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I Want To Know


How many of you brick guys clean up completely when you finish? And I mean leave the job site clean of all brick not used, mortar splashed on the ground, all of it?

I used the same mason for many years, and he always raked up the broken brick, and pretty much cleaned up his own mess...now he wouldn't touch anything that wasn't his, but he left no mess.

My last regular crew was not as "tidy", but still not a big deal since we have to clean the job site anyway....but the last job was awful. Left broken brick everywhere, mortar piles all over, had to threaten them to come and acid wash, and then clipped me on the bid.

I told them as I wrote the check I wasn't happy...they said it was now "extra" to clean up....really?

So I old them to get lost, I would never use them again, ever.

The guy who is the chief brickie called yesterday and said that he had a guy who wants me to build a house for him, and maybe we can patch things up?

I asked if he had a short memory, told him to not call again, and hung up.

Too much?
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Old 10-24-2014, 08:47 AM   #2
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Re: I Want To Know


Isn't clean up in the contract?

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Old 10-24-2014, 09:39 AM   #3
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Re: I Want To Know


Extra to clean up? Seriously?
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:06 AM   #4
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Re: I Want To Know


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Isn't clean up in the contract?
This is Oklahoma, and while contracts are a part of business, I do not make my subs sign contracts, ever. Their word and mine are the relationship.

I told him to pound sand when his word was discovered to be not good, and cleaned up his mess. He won't work for me or get a recommendation from me again, ever.

His call yesterday tells me he has noticed.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:13 AM   #5
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Re: I Want To Know


We never left a mess...ever. Daily clean up was routine, not just to keep other people happy, but because I hate tripping over junk all day. And seeing garbage laying around. I find it easier to tidy up everyday than to put it off until the job is done. And the HO/GC/Archy/whatever always appreciates a neat job site.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:23 AM   #6
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Re: I Want To Know


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This is Oklahoma, and while contracts are a part of business, I do not make my subs sign contracts, ever. Their word and mine are the relationship.

I told him to pound sand when his word was discovered to be not good, and cleaned up his mess. He won't work for me or get a recommendation from me again, ever.

His call yesterday tells me he has noticed.
You sound angrier than I would be. I've had a few subs do similar things, and I just never bothered talking with them, just paid them and deleted their name from my contacts.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:38 AM   #7
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Re: I Want To Know


Joasis,

Sounds to me like he re-thought his actions and came back to patch things up and brought a gift to boot.

Relationships are a give and take in this business... When he said clean-up was extra, didn't you address it with him then?

I would have said that wasn't part of the agreement and that has always been part of everyone else you've done business with and has always been part of the bid... I would have reinforced it by saying to him "imagine if I built a house and at the end, I then told the customer, sorry, clean-up is extra... how do you think they would react?"...

Could've nipped it in the bud right there, and potentially have another house...
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Old 10-24-2014, 11:51 AM   #8
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Joasis,

Sounds to me like he re-thought his actions and came back to patch things up and brought a gift to boot.

Relationships are a give and take in this business... When he said clean-up was extra, didn't you address it with him then?

I would have said that wasn't part of the agreement and that has always been part of everyone else you've done business with and has always been part of the bid... I would have reinforced it by saying to him "imagine if I built a house and at the end, I then told the customer, sorry, clean-up is extra... how do you think they would react?"...

Could've nipped it in the bud right there, and potentially have another house...
Unringing the bell is difficult to impossible, if it's a question of trust.
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:53 PM   #9
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Re: I Want To Know


Great points.
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:58 PM   #10
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Re: I Want To Know


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Sounds to me like he re-thought his actions and came back to patch things up and brought a gift to boot.
You might have a point, but.....they should have known better. I hired this guy and his crew because their price was right and they do great work. Then the price creep started, and then started getting really sloppy. The last house I did not discuss price with him and he literally broke it off in me, about 6k more then what I had budgeted. And left the mess. He couldn't explain how he came up with his number, like so much per column, so much for the watercourse details, scaffolding 23 high on the gables, fireplace fascia......but it was like he hit me with a number that he needed...meaning he needed x amount of cash that day.

He also promised to bring his guys over and do my outdoor patio and pizza oven for free...a gift for doing business. I told him to pound sand that day and I didn't need freebies, just honest jobs. I don't think he got the point.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:00 PM   #11
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Re: I Want To Know


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Unringing the bell is difficult to impossible, if it's a question of trust.
Sometimes people need a swift dose of reality. It seems like there was a bit more to the conversation or relationship than was described, so I have to trust Joasis and his gut on this one.
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Old 10-24-2014, 01:41 PM   #12
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Re: I Want To Know


Take the Job he offered you and sub the masonry work to someone else.
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:12 PM   #13
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Re: I Want To Know


The ground should be raked up quick, everything pulled off the house and put into reasonable piles. If the builder wants it wheeled off into a pile then fine, whatever makes people happy. I have never heard of wrapping a house in brick and not giving it a scrub down. Although if the bricks are "dusty" then they could come out clean without much effort, but still.
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:42 PM   #14
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Re: I Want To Know


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You sound angrier than I would be. I've had a few subs do similar things, and I just never bothered talking with them, just paid them and deleted their name from my contacts.
Your way is my dads way.

I am closer to Jays, I tell them why im running them off. I dont yell or whatever, and I doubt Jay does. I just dont not tell them why im running them off.
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:47 PM   #15
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Re: I Want To Know


Quote:
Originally Posted by KAP View Post
Joasis,

Sounds to me like he re-thought his actions and came back to patch things up and brought a gift to boot.

Relationships are a give and take in this business... When he said clean-up was extra, didn't you address it with him then?

I would have said that wasn't part of the agreement and that has always been part of everyone else you've done business with and has always been part of the bid... I would have reinforced it by saying to him "imagine if I built a house and at the end, I then told the customer, sorry, clean-up is extra... how do you think they would react?"...

Could've nipped it in the bud right there, and potentially have another house...
Id sit and talk in this situation. Most of the time it fixes the issues. Or else ill run them off again
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:01 PM   #16
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Re: I Want To Know


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Take the Job he offered you and sub the masonry work to someone else.
You a cold sob, hoss.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:15 PM   #17
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Re: I Want To Know


I leave every job cleaner,then when I found it. Even if I lost money on the job ,it's clean when I leave it. There's no reason not to clean.

All extra materials are neatly stored, scraps are neatly piled, and all of our personal trash is put in a bag and put on my truck every day.

If people are living in the house I'm working on, I haul off all of the waste and debris, rake the grass, and I even take my mixer home every day, and clean it at my shop.

Am I a clean freak? Yep....and my competition around here isn't!

The people I work for have came to expect that. Last year, one of the contractors I've been doing work for 10 years, called me the day after I had completed the job and told me he saw some cigarette butts around the job site. ( I had one guy that would smoke a cigarette on his break) So I drive 45 minutes ...and found 2 butts!!!!

I picked them up and called him and thanked him for letting me know...I'm still doing his masonry work
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:23 PM   #18
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I leave every job cleaner,then when I found it. Even if I lost money on the job ,it's clean when I leave it. There's no reason not to clean.

All extra materials are neatly stored, scraps are neatly piled, and all of our personal trash is put in a bag and put on my truck every day.

If people are living in the house I'm working on, I haul off all of the waste and debris, rake the grass, and I even take my mixer home every day, and clean it at my shop.

Am I a clean freak? Yep....and my competition around here isn't!

The people I work for have came to expect that. Last year, one of the contractors I've been doing work for 10 years, called me the day after I had completed the job and told me he saw some cigarette butts around the job site. ( I had one guy that would smoke a cigarette on his break) So I drive 45 minutes ...and found 2 butts!!!!

I picked them up and called him and thanked him for letting me know...I'm still doing his masonry work
Thats messed up. Call over a couple cigarette butts? Pick em up dude, and then let em know

Our mason is the son of the mason who did my grandads masonry in the early 70s thru his retirement. This guy took his dads business over and blew it up, they have 40 guys. They clean up pretty good, and we haul off/ take care of what ever sand they dont take with them. Do they vacuum the mortar and rock chips up? No. But we dont expect or pay them too. Works for us.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:47 PM   #19
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Re: I Want To Know


Amount of cleanup depends largely on whether it's on new construction or a reno.

Reno of course everything is spic and span when we're done, often cleaner than when I get there, but new construction (or even substantial reno)is totally different. the ground I'm working on usually consist of gravel, and very roughly graded soil that often contains clean fill which masonry waste is. Cement bags and personal garbage get thrown in the dumpster promptly but the large masonry waste gets consolidated into piles and the small pieces (anything smaller than my fist) gets left where it is. I have never had a builder who complains or has even asked for anything else.

Sometimes they will want all the masonry waste in one spot which isn't a problem but I definitely have no intention of taking that waste with me. If it was expected I would probably voice my confusion and displeasure about the need to, do it, and let them know that next time I'd add it to my bill

I do tidy everyday as part of house cleaning because I believe that large pieces of masonry are trip hazards and ankle twisters. And coke cans, sandwich wrappers that are just dropped on the ground aren't tolerated at all.

I should also add that almost every house that has masonry that I've done reno work on has masonry rubble in the soil about 6-8" down. Even many of the old houses...i did some work on a rubble foundation this summer and there was top soil, then mixed soil and rubble then sand. the brick was obviously from when the house was built at the turn of the century
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Old 10-24-2014, 06:14 PM   #20
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Although if the bricks are "dusty" then they could come out clean without much effort, but still.


Just for the sharing of information,if the reference to "dusty" bricks means sand on them as in wood molded,the bricks should be hosed off prior to laying,that sand also will compromise mortar bond between brick.

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