I Need Fireplace Help - Masonry - Contractor Talk

I Need Fireplace Help

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-25-2016, 02:20 PM   #1
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

I Need Fireplace Help


I know I've seen it mentioned before by some of you northerners, but can someone explain how to build a fireplace/chimney without the firebrick?

Situation: firebrick is special order from France, and the builder needs the rough-in done now. I'm not sure how you would support the damper, or does that go in later from below?

TIA for the help.
artisanstone is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 02-25-2016, 03:51 PM   #2
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


I put the damper ontop of the firebox when I build it, usually after the chimney is done.

I use 2 angle irons or an arch form I have kicking around. Ill see If I can grab a picture, but you need to set the first angle iron with enough height to slide the damper ontop of the firebox, 6" is tight.

Advertisement

JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:07 PM   #3
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


A picture would be good.

My thought was to set the damper on corbeled brick, and do everything except the firebrick. This is a slant back, so do you do the corbeled backup beforehand, or???

Just trying to wrap my head around what's possible. I don't even know the firebrick size yet. I know they want diagonal herringbone, and we're supposed to start Monday.
artisanstone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-25-2016, 04:30 PM   #4
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


I line my chimney with 4" blocks and build off of those.

Here is a picture showing the corbel on the angle iron, just happens I built the fireplace first but the method I use is the same.
Attached Thumbnails
I need fireplace help-20160114_123723.jpg  
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:33 PM   #5
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


If its a 24" chimney youll do a brick on edge against the outside wall building off the 4" block, if its 28 then just use a brick 4" ect.
Attached Thumbnails
I need fireplace help-20160114_140839.jpg  
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:39 PM   #6
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


When you build from the top of the firebox to the bottom of the angle iron, when you build the fireplace, youll have to build a wall on top of the damper to seal it off. I stick insulation on top of the damper for expansion against the face.
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 04:43 PM   #7
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
A picture would be good.

My thought was to set the damper on corbeled brick, and do everything except the firebrick. This is a slant back, so do you do the corbeled backup beforehand, or???

Just trying to wrap my head around what's possible. I don't even know the firebrick size yet. I know they want diagonal herringbone, and we're supposed to start Monday.
I fill my firebox as I build it, since its at the end of the chimney usually, I fill it with broken stuff from under the staging. Since its lined with 4" blocks it just needs to be filled loosely with some mud plopped in there strategically .
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 05:06 PM   #8
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


OK, so when you are building the rough-in, before you do the firebox, at what level are the two lintels crossing over to support the front of the chimney? I assume they are back to back a little higher than the top of the damper?
artisanstone is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:12 PM   #9
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
OK, so when you are building the rough-in, before you do the firebox, at what level are the two lintels crossing over to support the front of the chimney? I assume they are back to back a little higher than the top of the damper?
If the top of the firebox is say 40 then ill set the irons at 48".

I set one iron and do a course over it. Then ill either hammer cut or use the chop saw and make angles like 4 1/2-6 1/2. Ill lay the next course like the first one that was across the angle iron.

So you have brick course, header course that was hammer cut and single brick course on top of that. (do those at the same time to keep them from tipping. ) So now set the next angle iron on the front of the hammer cut brick. Lay a course on it, now tie them together with a header course. 5' chimneys use a 4' angle, 6 is 5 and on and on.
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:32 PM   #10
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


I made sense of that

So you end up with 12" wall thickness in 3 courses. All of this set 8" higher than bottom of damper. Correct?

This seems the way to go, mainly because I can build the firebox later without hitting my head too much.
artisanstone is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:40 PM   #11
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Itll be 8". 12 if you add the fireplace "brick" in front of the angle iron courses.

Its basically 3 courses to grow 8" with 2 angle irons. Tie the top together.
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 06:45 PM   #12
Pro
 
fjn's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,169
Rewards Points: 11,200

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


A trimmer arch to the rescue ! This excerpt from Richard Kreh explains how to pull it off.


https://books.google.com/books?id=4V...20arch&f=false
fjn is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:09 PM   #13
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


An arch is certainly the elegant solution. Any worries about the cold joint between arch and masonry below it that's built later?

I guess the same question would apply to JBM's method, but his has the advantage of a "Z" shaped break in the cold joint.
artisanstone is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 07:30 PM   #14
Pro
 
fjn's Avatar
 
Trade: mason
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,169
Rewards Points: 11,200

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
An arch is certainly the elegant solution. Any worries about the cold joint between arch and masonry below it that's built later?


I would not let that be a concern,relieving arches have been built for centuries, trimmer is just another aspect of a relieving arch.


https://www.google.com/search?q=reli...w=1093&bih=514
fjn is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:19 PM   #15
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
An arch is certainly the elegant solution. Any worries about the cold joint between arch and masonry below it that's built later?

I guess the same question would apply to JBM's method, but his has the advantage of a "Z" shaped break in the cold joint.
Youll want to keep either the arch or angles as low as you can but still get the damper in, that way you have a few courses to seal off.

An arch is better, I have mine made so i can do a taper in it, but you can go right to 8" as long as the damper door opens.

When we used to build with 2x4's and keep the fireplace flush this was not really a concern. With 2x6s and keeping the face off the wall it moves the damper way the frick out and there is concern it will hit, hence the sharp angle in my pic.
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:20 PM   #16
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Add to that the inspectors want 1" clearance against the house in the throat area now too!, not easy anymore.
JBM is offline  
Old 02-25-2016, 08:27 PM   #17
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


That is not a real concern in this case. I should have mentioned it before, but it's back to back fireplaces. One 36" flush hearth, and one 48" raised hearth. The overall fireplace/chimney structure is pretty big, so lots of room to move things around. I think they have the 48" fireplace drawn at 2'9" deep
artisanstone is offline  
Old 02-27-2016, 10:16 AM   #18
Pro
 
JBM's Avatar
 
Trade: Masonry
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Mass.
Posts: 7,655
Rewards Points: 10,832

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Do you have a link to those firebricks from France?
JBM is offline  
Old 02-27-2016, 01:14 PM   #19
Pro
 
artisanstone's Avatar
 
Trade: Stonemasonry
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: upstate, sc
Posts: 663
Rewards Points: 662

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


No, I found out Thurs. that the designer is supplying them. I still don't know the size, so we may not get much done on Mon.

I will try to take some pictures of the progress.
artisanstone is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to artisanstone For This Useful Post:
JBM (02-27-2016)
Old 02-28-2016, 02:08 PM   #20
Pro
 
dom-mas's Avatar
 
Trade: masonry
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 8,133
Rewards Points: 626

Re: I Need Fireplace Help


Please take as many progress pics as possible. Particularly where you start and stop on the smoke chamber. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it without pics.

Advertisement

__________________
New & restoration masonry construction
www.dominionmasonry.ca
dom-mas is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
outside fireplace brickhook Masonry Picture Post 21 11-28-2012 10:23 PM
Mortar in Fireplace doors 6stringmason Masonry 8 07-12-2012 08:23 PM
Stone fireplace facelift..before and after stonecutter Masonry 30 05-22-2012 09:00 PM
Does fireplace opening in block wall opening need support? Square-One Construction 1 02-28-2006 01:59 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?