Haydite Building Question - Masonry - Contractor Talk

Haydite Building Question

 
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:52 AM   #1
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Haydite Building Question


on a job where the building is haydite block with stocco directly over the outside ,venier plaster on the inside .no eves .expensive ,modern residence . Water comes through and lifts the inside plaster off the inside.is this totally a screw up method of building by both architect and builder .how are Haydite block homes water proofed generally.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:26 AM   #2
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Re: Haydite Building Question


I had to look up what haydite meant. It seems to be what we call lightweight block. I think you'll find that single wythe block construction is generally considered inferior because of the water penetration issue. There's been a lot written about it because it's used often in commercial buildings.

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Old 04-19-2019, 09:41 AM   #3
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Re: Haydite Building Question


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Originally Posted by JFM constr View Post
on a job where the building is haydite block with stocco directly over the outside ,venier plaster on the inside .no eves .expensive ,modern residence . Water comes through and lifts the inside plaster off the inside.is this totally a screw up method of building by both architect and builder .how are Haydite block homes water proofed generally.

The stucco is mixed with acrylic fortifier. It's part of the TDS I think. The other option is sealing the exterior.

There is still a possible issue with vapor condensing in the wall, so I've seen vents installed.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:44 AM   #4
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Re: Haydite Building Question


BTW, mixing in acrylic fortifier is expensive , so usually it's just going to be sealed / painted.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:01 AM   #5
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Re: Haydite Building Question


If it's commercial, there are a lot of stucco systems that basically use a thick textured polymer based coating as the color coat.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:41 AM   #6
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Re: Haydite Building Question


client doesn't know if stucco has a sealer in it .but it is stucco and stucco cracks .
though maybe it is more of a condensation thing .it is showing more damage closer to the ceiling then the floor .



So : is it a construction practice to coat concrete block with a stucco acrylic fortifer .


This is an expensive residence -not commercial .Cost doesn't show up in a factor of how this place was built ,at least not by my reckoning .
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:59 AM   #7
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by JFM constr View Post
.no eves .
Flush eaves and solid walls are often a problem with damp. However I thought it was sunny every day in California.
Are Haydite blocks made in Russia?
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:07 PM   #8
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by JFM constr View Post
client doesn't know if stucco has a sealer in it .but it is stucco and stucco cracks .
though maybe it is more of a condensation thing .it is showing more damage closer to the ceiling then the floor .



So : is it a construction practice to coat concrete block with a stucco acrylic fortifer .


This is an expensive residence -not commercial .Cost doesn't show up in a factor of how this place was built ,at least not by my reckoning .
I think first step would be to figure out if it's wind driven rain or condensation. There's a lot of missing info.
-Insulation type, amount and where
-mechanical systems (heat exchange ventilation?)
-Are you primarily A/C climate or heater climate?

To answer the main question, there are all kinds of ways of building masonry walls. Around here at least, best practice would include some type of membrane that could bridge cracks, an air space of some type, and then stucco last. How that was done would revolve almost entirely on what insulation was used and where in the wall assembly. I'm also not saying that best practice is common practice or the only way to do things.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:09 PM   #9
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by stuart45 View Post
Flush eaves and solid walls are often a problem with damp. However I thought it was sunny every day in California.
Are Haydite blocks made in Russia?
It's not a brand or term used here, but it appeared to be regular CMU using lightweight aggregate from what google would tell me.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:36 PM   #10
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by JFM constr View Post
client doesn't know if stucco has a sealer in it .but it is stucco and stucco cracks .
though maybe it is more of a condensation thing .it is showing more damage closer to the ceiling then the floor .



So : is it a construction practice to coat concrete block with a stucco acrylic fortifer .


This is an expensive residence -not commercial .Cost doesn't show up in a factor of how this place was built ,at least not by my reckoning .
Absolutely is s construction practice, and it's expensive. There is a good chance this was done using premixed bags of some specific manufacturer's system. The reason is outside of a specific system, color choices are somewhat limited.

The premix has everything in it, so you don't have to worry about putting additives or colorants in.

Last edited by hdavis; 04-19-2019 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:41 PM   #11
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Re: Haydite Building Question


When I see a building with no eaves,I just shake my head. Eaves are important,the wider the better. My analogy is take a hatchet and chop the brim off a fireman's helmet,you will have one heck of a fight on your hands. Reason being,the big brims are there for a purpose,keeping the water from going down his neck.

I just don't get architects that don't understand that issue.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:47 PM   #12
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Stucco doesn't have to crack, part of it is how much if any polymer modifier was in the mix, but the big factor is what trowel was used. Using a steel trowel for a final finish leads to very fine cracks almost immediately.

If you want to know if it has a sealer layer over the top, find an inconspicuous area and spritz it with vinegar, but be prepared to rinse it off fast.

The ones that rely on polymer additives for water resistance may fail this test.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:51 PM   #13
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Re: Haydite Building Question


BTW, since you see cracks, one of the polymer color coats was not used, you're just looking at stucco with possibly a sealer.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:15 PM   #14
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Re: Haydite Building Question


So, back to the problem. The interior plaster is coming off. There are cracks in the stucco. Fine cracks could be normal, larger cracks would not be.

The block wall could have been left uninsulated, or something like vermiculite or other insulation put in.

HVAC is in the attic a lot of places. Figuring out moisture movement through the wall during heating and cooling seasons is pretty important. The insulated block doesn't do anything to act as a vapor barrier or retarder, and when the outside wall is wet, you have 100% RH on the outside until it dries. If the AC is running, you'll have condensation in the wall.

You have to get the vapor retarded or vapor barrier situation figured out before going into a fix.

Stucco sealers are vapor retarders. They'll also keep the stucco from soaking up water. A lot of sealers leave a shiny surface, but I believe Superseal uses one that keeps it matte.
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:21 PM   #15
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Re: Haydite Building Question


this is the building .inside the 1/8" plaster is peeling off upper section of wall .You see fuzz on wall on lower section .
100% sure no insulation .Stucco directly on block .thin cracks on exterior .
Thankyou for the dialogue .
client recently added little dehumidifier and this seems to be fixing the issue ,or so he says .
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:44 PM   #16
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Those wire streaks high on the wall look like efflorescense. It looks like you have water or condensation up high on the outside. Any sealer / waterproofer that was there isn't doing much any more.

Stucco requires periodic maintenance for cleaning and sealing, and that building hasn't been getting it.
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Old 04-19-2019, 02:27 PM   #17
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Haydite is a brand, the material is expanded clay or shale. Lightweight CMU uses crushed expanded clay/shale as an aggregate.

If built properly, the best system is: CMU/liquid applied waterproofing/scratch coat/brown coat/finish coat.

The scratch coat and brown coat should have fibers and, best case, Integral Water Repellent. The finish coat, if not painted/sealed should also contain IWR.

With a single wythe wall, you do not have a rain screen (air space between the inner and outer layers to provide drainage and ventilation, i.e. holes at top and bottom.), you are forced to create a waterproof external skin.

To remediate an existing CMU/stucco wall that is not built using the above system (or the even better one that adds a drainage plane behind the stucco), the only real option is to repair any cracks and then use an elastomeric coating and cross your fingers.

As always, remember that once you touch it, the built in problems all become YOUR problem. Price it accordingly.
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:05 PM   #18
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Re: Haydite Building Question


I'm not convinced this is just the stucco. Stucco should be degrading from the found up, but it looks like efflotescense from grout between the blocks above the window on the right. I'd actually start looking at the roof/wall intersection for possible intrusion areas.

Just my take from looking at one pic.

Going over the top with elastomeric coating after fixing the cracks is pretty normal. Another option may be low angle power wash the stucco off the block, and start from square one. Last option is grind off the surface, and apply a stucco finish coat.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:31 PM   #19
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Specifically on this house, the no eaves are problematical, there is certainly water penetration, and you can't do anything until the moisture is out of the wall. The efflorescence is a sure sign of an unsealed wall, probably with point penetrations, so all of that has to be fixed before the next step.

If I were to mess with it (I wouldn't), I would first acid wash the **** out of it with something like Sure Klean lime solvent, then fix the cracks (1/4"x 1/4" ground joint (after I made sure the cracks were dead, if they were alive I would walk away no matter what) then I would make sure using both a moisture test, and de facto proof that it was dry (like 2 months of summer heat with no rain. Then I would apply an adhesive basecoat like Parex 121 base coat, then I would let THAT dry and use an elastomeric sealer and NOT give any warranty.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:39 PM   #20
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Re: Haydite Building Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
Specifically on this house, the no eaves are problematical, there is certainly water penetration, and you can't do anything until the moisture is out of the wall. The efflorescence is a sure sign of an unsealed wall, probably with point penetrations, so all of that has to be fixed before the next step.


Applying Herculean measures to that building is like putting perfume on a pig. Aint going to do much good. If the designer did not think enough of his design to do it correctly.........run Forrest run !

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