Ever Seen This? - Masonry - Contractor Talk

Ever Seen This?

 
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Old 12-09-2007, 06:46 PM   #1
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Ever Seen This?


Today I went and looked at a job. A bunch of drystone retaining walls and paving. The house is under construction and their stonemason is about half finished. So I walked around looking at things. Well there is a chimney on the roof, and it has nothing under it. This is 6" natural stone veneer BTW. On the first floor there is an isokern fireplace that's vented with a metal flue inside a wood chase. Above roof level, it's wrapped with stone. I've had builders ask me to do this before, but I refused. Anyone else seen this? It seems like a bad idea to have all that weight (app. 5 ton) sitting 35 feet up in the air supported on wood.
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Old 12-09-2007, 07:03 PM   #2
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Re: Ever Seen This?


How do you know there's not some steel up there too?

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Old 12-09-2007, 07:08 PM   #3
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Re: Ever Seen This?


I looked. The underside of that roof shows 2x10 rafters (stick built), no steel. Perhaps there's a lintel bolted to the chase. I don't see that as being enough. I like to see a clear path to the ground in steel or masonry. Wood rots.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:23 PM   #4
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Re: Ever Seen This?


We have done chimneys with bolting angle iron around the frame for the stone to set on. If that iron gives, you got a bigger problem than just the stone comeing in on you. I always make them beef up the rafters as well, just to be on the safe side.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:37 PM   #5
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Re: Ever Seen This?


I am old fashioned. Even in a balloon framed house, the masonry stack should be just that: A stack from the foundation to the top of the chimney, independant of the structure of the building around it. That is basic construction, IMO.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:47 PM   #6
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Re: Ever Seen This?


Done those too but most people don't want to waist another 5 grand when they don't have too though. That's why we do them both ways. Foundation up is always strongest.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:50 PM   #7
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Re: Ever Seen This?


You should be using an adheered veneer in that application, even if you have to saw the faces onsite. That is what it is for, after all. Unsupported masonry veneer is not a good alternative.
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Old 12-09-2007, 10:54 PM   #8
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Re: Ever Seen This?


WHO said unsupported? What the crap are you talking about? Do you even know how to do this kind of work?
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Old 12-09-2007, 11:35 PM   #9
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Re: Ever Seen This?


Unsupported by masonry.

If you are going to fake it, make it easy on yourself: Use adheered veneer.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:39 AM   #10
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Re: Ever Seen This?


The point is well made. That is exactly what natural thin veneer and frock (fake rock) are for. Whenever I'm asked to do this, I immediately ask for an engineers approval. I've never gotten one, so I don't do it. It's just common sense, if you've ever torn into an old house, you know wood sags, expands when damp, rots, burns, etc. It's not a good marriage to masonry. In addition, chimneys are very exposed to weather, flashing is rarely done correctly, you've just put lag bolts thru the lintel into wood, etc. I think the building inspector should catch this, but it seems they never look at masonry no matter how crappy.
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:47 AM   #11
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Re: Ever Seen This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by artisanstone View Post
I think the building inspector should catch this, but it seems they never look at masonry no matter how crappy.
Same here in SW SC. Doesn't make any sense to me picky about everything but masonry.
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Old 12-10-2007, 10:19 AM   #12
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Re: Ever Seen This?


I did some stone work on an 10,000 sq' foot house. Heavy stone 30' high. The house burned to the ground. The stone was still standing. No firemen were hurt. Masonry should never be supported by wood.

Last edited by tkle; 12-10-2007 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 12-10-2007, 06:20 PM   #13
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Re: Ever Seen This?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tscarborough View Post
I am old fashioned. Even in a balloon framed house, the masonry stack should be just that: A stack from the foundation to the top of the chimney, independant of the structure of the building around it. That is basic construction, IMO.
I don't think it's an old fashioned thing. I've also had people ask me to build interior masonry columns on the third floor. Every plan I look at, I check to see if the fireplace on the second floor is also shown on the first. Many times it is not. Recently, a set of plans showed a fireplace on the first floor and one on the second that was 6' offset sideways from the one below. I asked for a detail drawing on that one. Still haven't got it.

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