Adding To Concrete Around Post - Masonry - Contractor Talk

Adding To Concrete Around Post

 
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:28 AM   #1
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Adding To Concrete Around Post


When I set posts in the ground I bring the concrete up to grade with a slight slope away from the post, then wrap the post bottom with copper.

I sent a fence kit out to Cape Cod and when my customer sent me pics I noticed the post bottoms were all a little below grade with dirt around the post bottoms.

what is a good product to put on top of the concrete to bring it just to grade with a slight slope as it should be? Redi mix won't work because of the aggregate / little rocks.

Some kind of mortar?
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:39 AM   #2
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Not to drastically sidestep the question,however,I never set posts in concrete. This exchange may change your tack.


https://www.finehomebuilding.com/for...ng-fence-posts

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Old 05-20-2019, 11:01 AM   #3
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


This looks promising?
https://www.sakrete.com/products/top...ncrete-patcher
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:07 AM   #4
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Concrete is in fact, disallowed in our local arrea. When you apply for a deck or a fence permit, "Construction Code Authority" will give you a print out showing how to set the pad in the bottom, then backfill with pea gravel/crushed stone.

And, they prefer crushed stone.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:41 AM   #5
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Mortar. If the post wiggles, it will crack if it isn't bonded to the concrete.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:49 AM   #6
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post

And, they prefer crushed stone.
No way will I use crushed stone. If I have to pull a post, digging that stuff out to set a new one would be a pain.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:04 PM   #7
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


if they use
https://www.sakrete.com/products/top...ncrete-patcher
should they also use a bonder / concrete glue on the top of the concrete??

EDIT
yikes the owner just said-

Each post is sitting in three feet of concrete. Concrete stops a little before the surface – that is going to be filled with crushed stone.

I replied-Yeah the stone will do nothing to get the water away from the post, it’ll actually trap the water there because the post bottom is in a little sump / low spot now with dirt around it. You need to bring the concrete up just above grade, just above where the grass roots are, with a slight slope away from the post and this looks like a good product to use now
https://www.homedepot.com/p/SAKRETE-...5001/100275522 Make sure the exposed concrete is clean, maybe use a wire brush.

Last edited by Joe Wood; 05-20-2019 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:15 PM   #8
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Iíve always had a different approach. I intentionally leave the concrete low and fill to top 6Ē with dirt from the whole. Making sure the dirt is slipping away from the post.

I find this lets the grass grow back to the post and the grass helps absorb the moisture that would normally rot the post.

My fence was done this way 5 years ago and isnít showing any rot
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:29 PM   #9
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
No way will I use crushed stone. If I have to pull a post, digging that stuff out to set a new one would be a pain.
Backwards thinking.

Why on earth would you ever even consider pulling a post?

Defies all logic right there.

There is no good use for concrete - or mortar.

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Old 05-20-2019, 12:32 PM   #10
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


jeeze Stunt the posts are sitting in a low spot surrounded by dirt and grass

that's asking for it!
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Old 05-20-2019, 12:40 PM   #11
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


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jeeze Stunt the posts are sitting in a low spot surrounded by dirt and grass

that's asking for it!
I agree.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:36 PM   #12
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Should they use a concrete glue on top of the new poured concrete before doing the concrete patcher? These footings are only a few days old now.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:10 PM   #13
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Backwards thinking.

Why on earth would you ever even consider pulling a post?

Defies all logic right there.

There is no good use for concrete - or mortar.

Dark Ages are long behind me. I wish you well.
IMO, what works best depends on the situation.

Put fencing where you hit what amounts to rock 2 ft down, and concrete is going to happen.

I get 30 years or so out of PT 4x4 set in sand up here in a well draining area. If you have to take down a couple panels and pull a post for access or tree removal, you can do it. Wet the sand, then wiggle the post and pull it straight out. You can replace a broken post the same way, you just have to be careful pulling it out and sliding the new one in. No digging unless you mess up.

Personally, I wouldn't put a cement or mortar collar where the ground freezes much due to frost heaves, etc. What can work depends a lot on site specifics.

The OP is using redwood posts. They'll be fine no matter what is done. I have some in a swampy area that, even though redwood is considered a 50 year wood for posts, made it to 40 before rot. They're ready to be replaced now just shy of 50 years, but this time around it will be black locust because I can source it locally.

Last edited by hdavis; 05-20-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:14 PM   #14
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Wood View Post
Should they use a concrete glue on top of the new poured concrete before doing the concrete patcher? These footings are only a few days old now.
It's safest to use a concrete bonding agent, but I wouldn't recommend putting a collar on top of the cement simply due to the freeze thaw cycles there.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:19 PM   #15
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


better then having them sit in a low wet spot HDavis? It won't be a collar, just a slight slope up to the post to shed the water away?
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:24 PM   #16
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


If you want to go the concrete patch route, use this:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Quikrete...3340/100318461

All the patchers seem to set fast, so you have to work fast.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:36 PM   #17
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
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better then having them sit in a low wet spot HDavis? It won't be a collar, just a slight slope up to the post to shed the water away?
Here is where site specifics come in. I'm guessing most of MV is well draining sand under the top soil. It's has decent rainfall. You just want to keep the moisture content of the wood more consistent through the year, so the vinyl patcher may help. With redwood, it's more of a checking/cracking issue due to moisture swings.

One of the best arguments I ever heard was it keeps string trimmers from having to get too close and accidentally tearing up the post. If you put in redwood posts, it makes sense to preserve the cosmetics.

JMO.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:55 PM   #18
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Dear Joe Woods - good luck my friend.

smh, smh, smh...


Edit: "Joe Wood" - my bad.
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Last edited by SmallTownGuy; 05-20-2019 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 05-20-2019, 02:56 PM   #19
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


No S, just Wood! :-)

what's smh??
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Old 05-20-2019, 03:47 PM   #20
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Re: Adding To Concrete Around Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmallTownGuy View Post
Concrete is in fact, disallowed in our local arrea. When you apply for a deck or a fence permit, "Construction Code Authority" will give you a print out showing how to set the pad in the bottom, then backfill with pea gravel/crushed stone.

And, they prefer crushed stone.
Crushed rock will set the post every bit as solid as concrete and still provide a way for water to drain away.

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