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New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"

 
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Old 02-09-2015, 07:53 PM   #1
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New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/09/da...ng-them-video/

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/preview-darpa-dan

This is a chevy through On-Star.....wow.
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Old 02-09-2015, 08:08 PM   #2
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Wow. My mom actually works for darpa. They do a lot of cool stuff

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Old 02-09-2015, 09:19 PM   #3
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


They'll have a heck of a time making my '68 do what they want.

In my little town, when GM told the local dealer he had to computerize, in '78 or whenever, he locked the door and walked away. I wish they all would have.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:08 PM   #4
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.

This is plausible if someone broke into the car and strategically placed components under the hood that integrated with Onstar. I imagine that the story is a demonstration mock-up that's saying, "This is what COULD happen if they don't get their act together."
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:35 AM   #5
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.
Yeah. I thought this too... until I rented a 2014 Jeep Cherokee and a hacker friend showed me first hand how easy it is for them to do that.
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Old 02-10-2015, 11:20 AM   #6
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


OnStar can start and stop your vehicle, beyond the basic tracking of it, they can slow it down and make it inoperable, not sure about acceleration
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Old 02-10-2015, 06:00 PM   #7
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


I have heard of people hacking cars for a while. The 60 Minutes story was the first I ever saw it actually happen.


Makes you wonder about that airliner that crashed in the Java sea.

The black boxes recorded it climbing around 6000 feet in a couple minutes.
If somebody can tap into the computer in your car why not a jet.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:41 PM   #8
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.

This is plausible if someone broke into the car and strategically placed components under the hood that integrated with Onstar. I imagine that the story is a demonstration mock-up that's saying, "This is what COULD happen if they don't get their act together."
It goes through the BCM, Body Control Module. It's under the driver seat in my 2007 Chevy, ECM's under the hood.

Drive By Wire, I can see throttle hacking easier than brake other than ABS.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:35 PM   #9
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


I dont think there is any way to disable the braking system. It has to work even if there is a complete power failure.
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:05 PM   #10
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


with the crash avoidance systems there are computers in control of the brakes on some models.
Electronic Traction control is also a computer working the brakes


I was behind a new Audi on the way home last weekend and my radar detector would beep every 30 seconds or so and faster if I got closer or he got closer to the truck infront of him. It was annoying as he11
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Old 02-11-2015, 11:13 PM   #11
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.

This is plausible if someone broke into the car and strategically placed components under the hood that integrated with Onstar. I imagine that the story is a demonstration mock-up that's saying, "This is what COULD happen if they don't get their act together."
I asked the tech about that when I had my sprinter serviced, there are 13 different computers on it which all go through the ECM. Everything is monitored and stored. On some trucks ( not sure about sprinter ) there is a secondary brake booster which pressurizes the brake system should there be a power loss, it is wired right to the battery but a relay is kept open by the ECM. ECM fails, relay closes, and electric pump starts. And when it does not work properly it cost $2600 to fix
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Old 02-15-2015, 10:28 AM   #12
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


in the video, how can the electronics disable your foot pedal? That would indicate we could lose brakes at any time right?
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:14 PM   #13
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.

This is plausible if someone broke into the car and strategically placed components under the hood that integrated with Onstar. I imagine that the story is a demonstration mock-up that's saying, "This is what COULD happen if they don't get their act together."
Actually all the modules go through the ECU/PCM and can be controlled from the OBDII port. While on older vehicles 96-2004/5 you may not be able to disable the brakes you can control them with the ABS module. In 2005 all manufacturers went to the CAN system and this allows for even more control for all functions of the vehicle. When i worked for GM in the early 2k i was able to control most functions of the car through PCM with the Tech2. This was done just for normal testing/diag. When i worked for Chrysler in 2004/5 again we were able to control every function of the vehicle with the DRBIII and the new Star Scan which was also wireless. So dont believe for a minute that anyone cannot control these newer cars with a simple laptop and the right programs.

Think about it, how many cars are now keyless entry? How many functions are now fly by wire and as technology progresses we are turning to electronic powered functions of our vehicles such as electric power steering, electric braking, and electric brakes?? Now you take the Tesla and other electric cars with electric drivelines/motors. They are actually getting easier to control. It is not far off where big brother will have readily available access to the controls of all our vehicles. In fact, try to buy a vehicles without some form of GPS communications on it. All GM's come with On-Star whether you want it or not, no choice in the matter. Hmmm, why is that?
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:26 PM   #14
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


the CANBUS system is unbelievable, everything is monitored. Even installing the wrong license plate light will throw a fault, and the way the Limp Home Mode works with certain faults. Every fault is recorded and kept from the moment the car was first started at the factory.
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Old 02-26-2015, 01:18 AM   #15
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
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the CANBUS system is unbelievable, everything is monitored. Even installing the wrong license plate light will throw a fault, and the way the Limp Home Mode works with certain faults. Every fault is recorded and kept from the moment the car was first started at the factory.
See I knew I had good reason to ignore the stupid check engine light, its probably just trying to tell me I put in the wrong license plate bulb.
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Old 02-26-2015, 08:21 AM   #16
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
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the CANBUS system is unbelievable, everything is monitored. Even installing the wrong license plate light will throw a fault, and the way the Limp Home Mode works with certain faults. Every fault is recorded and kept from the moment the car was first started at the factory.

I haven't run into it myself yet, but everything I have read up on my wife's Land Rover says that.
Anything but OEM Land Rover taillight bulbs will cause a fault code.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:59 AM   #17
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


So being that cars can be hacked, I wonder if that was the case a few years back when there was a guy in LA who was doing over 100 mph in a Prius and couldn't get it to stop.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:10 AM   #18
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


Quote:
Originally Posted by tedanderson View Post
I call shenanigans on that story.

Some components just don't run through the ECM computer like the BRAKES or the WINDSHIELD WIPERS. You cant even control that stuff through the OBD port.

This is plausible if someone broke into the car and strategically placed components under the hood that integrated with Onstar. I imagine that the story is a demonstration mock-up that's saying, "This is what COULD happen if they don't get their act together."
False you can control the ABS through a scan tool. Not a cheap scan tool but a factory one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodchuck2 View Post
Actually all the modules go through the ECU/PCM and can be controlled from the OBDII port. While on older vehicles 96-2004/5 you may not be able to disable the brakes you can control them with the ABS module. In 2005 all manufacturers went to the CAN system and this allows for even more control for all functions of the vehicle. When i worked for GM in the early 2k i was able to control most functions of the car through PCM with the Tech2. This was done just for normal testing/diag. When i worked for Chrysler in 2004/5 again we were able to control every function of the vehicle with the DRBIII and the new Star Scan which was also wireless. So dont believe for a minute that anyone cannot control these newer cars with a simple laptop and the right programs.

Think about it, how many cars are now keyless entry? How many functions are now fly by wire and as technology progresses we are turning to electronic powered functions of our vehicles such as electric power steering, electric braking, and electric brakes?? Now you take the Tesla and other electric cars with electric drivelines/motors. They are actually getting easier to control. It is not far off where big brother will have readily available access to the controls of all our vehicles. In fact, try to buy a vehicles without some form of GPS communications on it. All GM's come with On-Star whether you want it or not, no choice in the matter. Hmmm, why is that?

Exactly I worked at a Chrysler dealership up until 2000. The intrepids,concords ect you had to bleed the ABS with a scan tool. If I remember correctly, you also had to have the vehicle sitting at a certain angle.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:50 PM   #19
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


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So being that cars can be hacked, I wonder if that was the case a few years back when there was a guy in LA who was doing over 100 mph in a Prius and couldn't get it to stop.

I have often thought about that with all those cases.
Why did it seem that at least all the ones that were publicized were out west?
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Old 03-08-2015, 02:45 PM   #20
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Re: New Vehicles Are More - "hack-able"


In the land of hackers, the man with the '89 Chevy Van is King.

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