Slider Saw Problem - Tools & Equipment - Contractor Talk

Slider Saw Problem

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #1
Home remodeling
 
jhcontracting's Avatar
 
Trade: home remodeling
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 158
Rewards Points: 157
Thumbs down

Slider Saw Problem


Looking for some answers. I just recently bought a makita 12"compound slider miter saw. First time for a slider style miter saw. When I cut even a 2x4 if it is just a little bowed it wants to buck back on me. But not all the time. But enough to make my concerned My son has had the same problem.
We have tried all different methods of cutting but get the same results. Had the factory guy out and of course it didn't buck on him. So he thinks theirs nothing wrong. Were not amateurs with these tools. So I'm wondering if anyone else has had the same problem. If so how do you fix it or is this inherent in all slider style miter saw
jhcontracting is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 05-15-2011, 03:57 PM   #2
Pro
 
GettingBy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Improvement/handyman
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,622
Rewards Points: 6,486

Re: Slider Saw Problem


******************x

Advertisement


Last edited by GettingBy; 05-15-2011 at 04:05 PM.
GettingBy is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 04:23 PM   #3
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,999
Rewards Points: 2,760

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Are cutting correctly? Pulling the saw out, then plunge down and push in....I see a few people who think a slider is like a radial arm saw and pull it through the cut, when you should be pushing.
TBFGhost is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to TBFGhost For This Useful Post:
JHC (05-15-2011)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-15-2011, 05:25 PM   #4
Pro
 
GettingBy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Improvement/handyman
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DC area
Posts: 2,622
Rewards Points: 6,486

Re: Slider Saw Problem


When the rep was there did he do the cutting or did you do the cutting?

You could try running many experiments on spare pieces on how often and when this happens. Damp or dry wood, wood dimensions, adequate voltage to the saw, etc.

This search using Google's advanced search option

cause saw kickback OR buck

seems to give some good hits.

You could also search for 'factory recall' or 'hidden warranty' or Technical Service Bulletin from Makita to solve this 'non-existent' problem
or class action lawsuits against Makita for similar product defects and/or product liability.

My Harbor Freight saw (was a gift) has never done this but I rarely use it. The blade rotation pushes the wood against the backstop.

Last edited by GettingBy; 05-15-2011 at 05:27 PM.
GettingBy is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 05:40 PM   #5
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,233
Rewards Points: 12,218

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Something you may want to consider is "hook angle" of your blade. A sliding miter saws geometry is different than that of other saws and warrants a negative hook angle. Check out these links.

http://www.justsawblades.com/systimatic/terminology.htm

http://www.rockler.com/articles/saw-...tion-guide.cfm

http://www.infinitytools.com/SawBladeUni_2.asp
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to loneframer For This Useful Post:
PrecisionFloors (07-23-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 05:43 PM   #6
Custom Builder
 
Chris@Sunrise's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central Oregon, Bend, Redmond, Sisters
Posts: 1,412
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Is your lumber crowned ? Are you supported to high on one side? I have a dewalt that sometimes trys to rip your arm off. Usually a 2x up on edge.
Chris@Sunrise is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 06:57 PM   #7
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,999
Rewards Points: 2,760

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
Something you may want to consider is "hook angle" of your blade. A sliding miter saws geometry is different than that of other saws and warrants a negative hook angle. Check out these links.

http://www.justsawblades.com/systimatic/terminology.htm

http://www.rockler.com/articles/saw-...tion-guide.cfm

http://www.infinitytools.com/SawBladeUni_2.asp
Not true. Negative hook angle saw blades are really ment for saws like radial arms where you PULL the blade through the cut. The negtive hook helps to keep the blade from grabbing into the material and over powering you.

If your correctly using a sliding miter saw, the blades forces are pushing back against you as you push the saw towards the fence making it MUCH harder for the saw to grab in and over power you.

Think about using a circ saw, if you using it normally its not a problem to control and you have also felt how it pushes back against you as you cut. Now if any of you have used a circ saw and cut backwards you will know how much easier it is for the saw to buck and kick....

Its sorta the same thing with routers, you use a router in a counter-clockwise motion as this works against the bit, but if you go clockwise, the bit will try and push you out of the cut....

Basically, its not the hook angle.

First I would make sure you using the saw correct...second I would look at the material your cutting, if it warped and warped so where you cutting is away from the fence, as you complete the cut the two off cuts will be pushed back against the fence by the blade, which in turn will close the kerf, pinch the blade and send one or both off cuts flying.

Last edited by TBFGhost; 05-15-2011 at 07:00 PM.
TBFGhost is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:28 PM   #8
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,233
Rewards Points: 12,218

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Im not sure then why the majority of mitersaw blades are manufactured with 0 or negative hook angles.

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/s...de-495387.html

http://www.forrestblades.com/chopmaster.htm

http://justsawblades.com/ten/miter_saw_blades.html
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to loneframer For This Useful Post:
[email protected] (05-15-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 07:37 PM   #9
Wood Craftsman
 
PrestigeR&D's Avatar
 
Trade: High End Remodeling & Refurbishing
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 7,324
Rewards Points: 4,642
Arrow

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Because a positive kerf blade will tend to bite into or try and pick up the material off of the field table,depending on how you are advancing the blade into the material.



B,
PrestigeR&D is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:51 PM   #10
Home remodeling
 
jhcontracting's Avatar
 
Trade: home remodeling
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 158
Rewards Points: 157

Re: Slider Saw Problem


I have looked at the way we are using it and I am confident we are using it correctly as far as how the lumber lays. I agree that if the lumber is bowed away from the fence this could be a problem. If that's true, then as far as I'm concerned that is a poor design.

With lumber the way it is today, quite often you will have lumber that is a bit bowed. Even if you go to the lumber yard and pick straight ones, they can bow at the job site before you get to use them. I will call Makita tomorrow, and report back my findings
jhcontracting is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:54 PM   #11
Pro
 
Dirtywhiteboy's Avatar
 
Trade: Home Framing- Roof Stacking
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Honolulu Oahu,Hawaii
Posts: 16,174
Rewards Points: 13,520

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
******************x
__________________
I Have Done So Much With So Little For So Long, I Can Do Almost Anything With Nothing Now
Dirtywhiteboy is online now  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:55 PM   #12
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,233
Rewards Points: 12,218

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D View Post
Because a positive kerf blade will tend to bite into or try and pick up the material off of the field table,depending on how you are advancing the blade into the material.



B,
I already knew that B. I've experimented with many blades over the years and I prefer -2 degrees in most cases for sliding saws. No more than +5 in a non slider.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 07:56 PM   #13
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,226
Rewards Points: 174

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
******************x
That is usually the response generated when the piece jumps on ya.
Warren is online now  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:29 PM   #14
Finish Carpenter
 
TBFGhost's Avatar
 
Trade: Finish Carpentry, Reno
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lebanon, NJ
Posts: 4,999
Rewards Points: 2,760

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by jhcontracting View Post
I have looked at the way we are using it and I am confident we are using it correctly as far as how the lumber lays. I agree that if the lumber is bowed away from the fence this could be a problem. If that's true, then as far as I'm concerned that is a poor design.

With lumber the way it is today, quite often you will have lumber that is a bit bowed. Even if you go to the lumber yard and pick straight ones, they can bow at the job site before you get to use them. I will call Makita tomorrow, and report back my findings

Really? How in the world is that a design flaw?
TBFGhost is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:35 PM   #15
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,233
Rewards Points: 12,218

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
Really? How in the world is that a design flaw?
Obviously, the fence should swivel to match the bow in the material.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 08:48 PM   #16
Custom Builder
 
Chris@Sunrise's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Central Oregon, Bend, Redmond, Sisters
Posts: 1,412
Rewards Points: 502

Re: Slider Saw Problem


You guys dont have flexable fences? Well then you guys must not have the auto miter corrector for bowed, twisted, cupped and crowned lumber. Im still mad that none of my saws will cut a 45 straight on a 2x12 thats cupped 3/4". Darn manufacture defects.

Last edited by [email protected]; 05-16-2011 at 08:31 AM.
Chris@Sunrise is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to [email protected] For This Useful Post:
loneframer (05-15-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 08:52 PM   #17
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 23,695
Rewards Points: 674

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by GettingBy View Post
When the rep was there did he do the cutting or did you do the cutting?
This is actually an excellent point. I did field service work for quite a few years, and it didn't take too long at all for me to learn that if the problem wasn't evident right away, the best thing was to have the user demonstrate it to me.

In many cases, it was either a procedural error on his part, or an experience-related trick I was using without realizing it.
Tinstaafl is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tinstaafl For This Useful Post:
Tom Struble (05-15-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 09:06 PM   #18
Pro
 
Tom Struble's Avatar
 
Trade: siding
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: west milford n.j.
Posts: 17,271
Rewards Points: 20

Re: Slider Saw Problem


yea.... but your just a mechanic
__________________
Tom
Tom Struble is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to Tom Struble For This Useful Post:
Tinstaafl (05-15-2011)
Old 05-15-2011, 09:10 PM   #19
KemoSabe
 
loneframer's Avatar
 
Trade: residential framing/siding/general carpentry
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Vineland, New Jersey
Posts: 14,233
Rewards Points: 12,218

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
yea.... but your just a mechanic
I thought he was an applicator.
__________________
__________________________________




"Walking the fine line between production and perfection"




__________________________________
loneframer is offline  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:13 PM   #20
Capra aegagrus

 
Tinstaafl's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeler
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 23,695
Rewards Points: 674

Re: Slider Saw Problem


Quote:
Originally Posted by tomstruble View Post
yea.... but your just a mechanic


Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
I thought he was an applicator.
I think I'll just brush past that one.

Advertisement

Tinstaafl is online now  



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Duraspin deck screw problem HandyHails Decks & Fencing 9 06-04-2012 05:33 PM
Gonna build a new work station for my slider. Input wanted. pinwheel Finish Carpentry 49 01-25-2011 08:31 PM
Existing addition on slab drainage problem dberkey1 Construction 4 08-21-2009 05:41 AM
Problem in corners woodchuck2 Painting & Finish Work 28 08-01-2009 10:07 AM
Bosch 12 dual mitre saw, transport lock wont hold? commen problem? woodworkbykirk Tools & Equipment 10 10-28-2008 08:18 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?