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Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems

 
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:28 PM   #1
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Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


My Bosch just crapped out today....the bearing at the rear of the armature seized up...it took the plastic motor housing with it.

This seems to be a common problem with the bosch 4100. I don't know why they didn't use a sealed bearing in the motor, this bearing is located right at the intake for the air and is SLAMMED with dust all the time. The bearing is all blued and is bone dry. Dust must have dried out the bearing.

The housing was only $25, some rubber ring was $1 and I am ordering a sealed bearing for $1....or maybe a sealed stainless steel/ceramic bearing for $30. I am not going to put the unsealed bearing that Bosch sells back in there...

If you hear your Bosch 4100 start to make a faint high pitched noise, I am willing to be your bearing is dry and about to toast...



http://www.diychatroom.com/f29/porta...e-stand-58561/

http://www.ereplacementparts.com/bos...ml#review_1353
(scroll to the bottom)


http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/6200-2RS10-1

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Old 05-07-2010, 07:41 PM   #2
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


I have heard about that.

I will watch mine but, it has not got a whole lot of use in the last year and a half.

That is one tool I do blow out with a leaf blower or compressed air.

At least the parts were cheap.

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:08 PM   #3
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


last months finehomebuilding did a table saw review. basswood submitted a comment on the bosch stating he went through 2 of the newer model in under a year. it was the bearings. and the article went on to say that bosch did release a statement that they have been seeing a large number of the new saw having this issue

ive had mine 4 years now and no issues other than a couple dull blades and adjusting the fence. but yes to blowing out the saw with compressed air, i do this after just about every use through the entire motor housing. it definitely lengthens the life of the tool
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:22 PM   #4
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Blowing out the saw will not do any good, as the dust is still getting in there. I used to blow mine out as well...this was the results....

Front of Bearing:


Back of Bearing:


The bearing they use (Bosch) is a sheilding bearing....it is no good for use where there is fine dust....IE wood working. The dust gets in the bearing, drys out the grease and BOOM, bearing failure. I am getting this bearing...

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9701

It is a 6200 series bearing meaning it is a bearing with a 10mm bore, 30mm O.D. and a 9mm width.

It is a fully sealed bearing with the C3 spec.

C3 is an internal clearance, or the amount of internal free space between the rolling elements and the raceways of a bearing.

This bearing is made in Japan as I have heard bad things about bearing coming out of China...

Knowing what I know now....I would replace your non-sealed bearings with this one before it smokes on you.



Shielded/non-contact bearings have a metal plate covering the balls, cage, and races. Sealed/contact bearings have a (usually black) neoprene cover instead. Open bearings, as the name suggests, have no shields or seals and are open on the sides. The big difference between a shield and a seal is the seal is a contact seal. The seals have a lip running on the inner ring of the bearing. The shield is a gap seal. It does not touch the inner ring. Sealed bearings have much more friction compared to shielded bearings, and thus are generally rated for lower speeds than shielded bearings. If you hold a shielded and sealed bearing in your hand and spin each, then you will clearly feel the difference in friction. A shielded bearing will almost spin free and a sealed bearing will not spin free.

A shielded bearing will run cooler at higher speeds, but it does not have the same dirt exclusion abilities of a sealed bearing. This creates the possibility of fine dust working into shielded bearings through the shields. Open bearings are nice because you can always clean/repack with grease 10 or 20 years from now (assuming you and your machine are still alive and well), but are not suitable for locations where dirt/debris can get into the bearing. If the bearings are lubricated by an oil system, then open bearings must be used.

Ceramic bearings have the normal steel balls replaced by white ceramic balls. The ceramic balls are made of solid silicon nitride. Ceramic silicon nitride balls are called ceramic but have nothing in common with household dish ceramics. They are called ceramic because it's easier calling them ceramic then silicon nitride. The ceramic silicon nitride ball is by far, smoother, harder, lighter and stronger than one made off steel. Bearing Kinetics is one supplier. Sealed for life bearings work better in applications where you donít have the fine dust you see in woodworking. This super fine dust functions like silica gel for bearing volatiles and can greatly shorten the life of your bearings by drying up the lube. For example, Oliver 299 type one planers use grease zerks for lubricating the bearings. In this case, itís unreasonable to have oilers in all those bearings with the bed rollers, section infeed rollers, outfeed rollers etc. On type two machines, Oliver switched to sealed for life bearings. They are expensive and require much more rebuild effort than a zerk greaser or a full bath oiler. Jointers are also a natural for this type of bearing and it works great.

http://wiki.owwm.com/Ball%20Bearing%20Primer.ashx

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:27 PM   #5
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


The only "special" tool you need is a puller, so you can pull the bearing off the armature...



This the the bearing on the armature...





This is the puller i used.

http://www.google.com/products/catal...CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

I will be using a socket and hammer to "press" the bearng back on...just find a socket that fits over the inner race...you don't want to "press" it on by the outter race or you will mess up the bearing.

Last edited by TBFGhost; 05-07-2010 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:53 AM   #6
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Here I thought I was doing better over my Ryobi BT3000 for my portable. What a stupid decision to use open bearings. How much could they have saved on a $4 bearing?

Last edited by Andrew M.; 05-08-2010 at 11:34 AM. Reason: grammer
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:41 AM   #7
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew M. View Post
Here I thought I doing better over my Ryobi BT3000 for my portable. What a stupid decision to use open bearings. How much could they have saved on a $4 bearing?

That is what I am saying....There are a bunch of BT3000 and BT3100 for sale around here...
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:53 AM   #8
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


On the BT 3000, I have 2 routers mounted too,bought it over 10 years ago, I use a ridgid stand[older one], out-feed mounts to rear rail[a full sized table not the small rail on the Bosch], metal case , not plastic. I had to repair the elevation handle, with an cut down emt coupling/epoxy/fender washers, as it split and you can not buy the better metal assembly one from the similar sears version any longer , not sure how long it will last. It is not a good site saw if abuse is a concern.
I only paid $200 at HD for the 4100, so I think I can deal with the bearing issue. I would change it out but I do not have the time right now. I do not understand why people like the erector set stand, overly complex and not that functional. The stand design has a major flaw in that the wheels are too small to go up stairs , curbing. Why the heck did they do that? Again who designs these tools? My Bosch Multi -x has a plastic drive ring gear over the output gear of the motor, that will for sure break, a bronze would cost pennies and last the life of the tool.

If TTI had not ruined Ryobi, [remember they made very good tools like the RE600 Router, AP10 planer, Drum sander all made in Japan or USA] and tweaked the BT3000 it could have been a really good portable. The riving knife was ahead of its time too. I cut mine down because the stock guard is a pain. Sears sell a version of it on a stand , but overall the De walt is the best job site in my opinion, esp. now seeing that cheap open bearing. Even HFT Chinese cheap powertools have sealed bearings.
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Old 05-09-2010, 07:37 PM   #9
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


just bumping this for other 4100 users...
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Old 05-10-2010, 08:39 AM   #10
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Mine has been making a strange noise for a while. How much of a pain is it to get the motor out?
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Old 05-10-2010, 09:26 AM   #11
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Crow View Post
Mine has been making a strange noise for a while. How much of a pain is it to get the motor out?

To get that bearing...VERY VERY Simple....

Take the saw off the stand to make life easy....
Flip it upside down on its table.
Tilt the blade/motor to 45 degrees.

There are 4 screws you need to remove. Four screws the motor housing to the arbor assembley and then you simply pull the housing off. Give it a little tug. That exposes the armature with the bearing on it.

Use the puller, to remove it, and "press" a new one back on there. Or take it to any automotive shop and ask for it to be pulled and installed.

When my parts come in I will take Step by Step photos. If it is making a higher pitched "whining" noise I would stop using your saw before it goes from just a bearing to a bearing, the motor housing and rubber ring.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:25 AM   #12
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Whoa...sticky status? Cool.

In the down time, waiting for parts...I bought a Ryobi BT12S....their cheapo $120 saw, took it home, set-it up, adjusted it to square, threw a used diablo blade in it... doesn't cut half bad...for what it is...lol. But I guess I now have a super small, light, table saw that can have the snot kicked out of it till it dies.... It will be good for the jobs where I have alot of extention jambs to cut...now I don't have to use my circ saw or lug the Bosch.

To be honest, I was sitting there setting this thing up, laughing and going...this is one sexy saw...

I took that stand that came with it, and put the parts on the welding cart...gots me some most BS metal for when I need to fab something stupid up...


I did look around at the mini Ridgid and mini DeWalt...but at $400 I couldn't do it....I need to purchase some other things first.

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Old 05-12-2010, 11:23 AM   #13
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


That Ryobi had higher RPMS than most other saws....Similar features like depth cut, AMP whatever. These kind of purchases come down to portability and durability especially when all the features are equal. Now I dont believe the durabilty or the guide is worthy on a Ryobi but if you slap a Rousseu Jr on that sucker its great.

I am in need of replacement so I have been looking at the DW745 just because its light and I liked the guide rail mechanism the best. Its also been well reviewed. I keep wondering if I'm being foolish at 3 times the cost to buy. The DW saw is less capable in rip width and slower RPM than the Ryobi. If I can only get past that Ryobi name/reputation.

Everyone who has a saw in the $600.00 price tier has said the same things, it breaks down like all others and they tend to leave in the garage cause of the size. Every year it seems like more tools are being overpriced and phased out junk in shorter life spans. Really starting to wonder if killing cheap tools is more realistic in a bad economy.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:05 PM   #14
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


I have a 4000 that has been relatively good. I'm not a Bosch fan any more but I do like the saw. How many here have a cracked housing? Evey one I have seen has cracked it from almost day 1. You think they would learn from the first model.
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:23 PM   #15
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


I have the older 4000 and would generally consider it a piece of junk. It was a little over a year old when it broke the first time. The blade would spin backwards at about 1/3 speed. I think that time it was the little circuit board built into the motor that was bad. I had to change the circuit board a second time a couple years later but it was doing something different that time, can't remember what. As I recall I've also had to change the field windings and the motor housing. The motor housing broke and I can't remember the reason for the windings.

I don't know why Bosch finds it necessary to add a circuit board to every motor they make, especially when that can't seem to get it right. Ever try their right angle driver PS10? It seems to have what, I guess, is supposed to be a soft start feature. I have no idea why other than to annoy me every time I try to use it. It also has an 7 position electronic clutch that really only gives you about 2-3 different settings. They've also found it necessary to ruin their jig saw (1590EVSK) with Constant Response™ circuitry. I'm unsure what it is supposed to do other to make it impossible to start the saw slowly. The second you pull the trigger, it's full speed and then slows to the speed you actually have the trigger pulled to. Super smooth saw but I hate using the thing and much prefer to use my old B&D industrial jig saw that I got back in 93.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:56 PM   #16
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


my 1590 jig does not do that? And the 4000 saws had that crappy base design, the 4100 does not... looks similar but it doesn't


And I will say that Ryobi has higher RPM. It spins at 4500 vs the Bosch 3500.....that little guy humms. I used the snot out of it today, from ripping a bunch of PFJ to make wains, to Azek and starting building a mantel with it tonight, but had to stop to head over to a town meeting. It will be a great little saw for the litteraly throw it in the back of my truck small jobs....and it got SOAKED in the rain today. :-)


As far as sticking in a stand to make it better...yeah, the fence is iffy, but if you push it to the back it always locks square...but there is no way in hell you could get accurate bevel settings with it...the motor is just mounted too weakly and it can give a little this way or that...but I have a good feeling this little saw will be at many of my smaller job sites along with the little 10" Delta CMS....the Bosch units stay in the shop most of the time....or as much as I can just because they are so beasty.

Last edited by TBFGhost; 05-12-2010 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:20 PM   #17
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Thanks for the link to the bearing. Think I might order one just to have on hand.
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Old 05-13-2010, 05:43 PM   #18
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


...Ryobi got a work out today... I have three jobs that "big" tablesaw jobs...figures that the Bosch goes down now...

I wish I had the older version of the Ryobi tho...it has a alumn table...would be better for the rain...

Putting a bevel on some 5/4 Azek drip caps...

Last edited by TBFGhost; 05-13-2010 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 06:06 PM   #19
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
my 1590 jig does not do that?
Really, you can start slowly with your saw? I know I can't with my saw and it's been like that since the day I bought it. I just figured it was another case of them "fixing" something that's not broken. I'll have to give another saw a try.
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Old 05-13-2010, 08:54 PM   #20
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Re: Bosch 4100 Bearing Problems


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBFGhost View Post
...Ryobi got a work out today... I have three jobs that "big" tablesaw jobs...figures that the Bosch goes down now...

I wish I had the older version of the Ryobi tho...it has a alumn table...would be better for the rain...

Putting a bevel on some 5/4 Azek drip caps...


man,, TBF,,,
the oder of that material at first is wicked when it's milled,,,,, I get used to it, but-, my eyes ged bugged,, http://www.contractortalk.com/f13/4-...nth-cap-78447/



Brian

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