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-   -   Beach No.1 Ceiling mounted scroll saw. (https://www.contractortalk.com/f40/beach-no-1-ceiling-mounted-scroll-saw-142822/)

WarnerConstInc. 12-15-2013 06:58 PM

Beach No.1 Ceiling mounted scroll saw.
 
This thing is cool. This is not something one comes across more then once in a lifetime, I suppose at least, because they seem to be really rare.

I actually have a bunch of work coming up real soon that this thing would be perfect for.

Here is a catalog cut: http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/80/3071.pdf

Here is the only one set up I can find:

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/phot...ges/1146-A.jpg

http://www.vintagemachinery.org/phot...ges/1146-B.jpg

Here is mine:

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps94c9b48e.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps18f0e390.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps515bbade.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psf170443f.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps2f802442.jpg

It has a clutched or friction drive pulley, the table is in rough shape and the billows for the air pump has seen its better days.

The two things I will need to figure out is how to mount it to the ceiling and what kind of blades to get, or how to modify blades to work.

griz 12-15-2013 07:53 PM

You have room for it?

Did you catch this thread?
Right up your alley...:thumbsup:

https://www.contractortalk.com/f11/gr...7/#post1907488

Here's their website.
About 1-1/2 hours south of me.

http://www.blueoxmill.com/about-blue-ox-millworks.htm

WarnerConstInc. 12-15-2013 08:44 PM

Room, a specific job and I saw that video elsewhere.

Leo G 12-15-2013 09:06 PM

Room is relative :laughing:

Exlud 12-15-2013 09:41 PM

There is one that has been on Ebay for a while that I've been watching. Watching being the operative word, since I don't have the space for it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/121010326452...84.m1423.l2649
I've been looking into doing some marquetry (and dabbling a bit) so it's a "one of these days.." for me.

WarnerConstInc. 12-15-2013 09:52 PM

That is Barry's saw. Have you looked at something called a donkey for what you want to do?

Exlud 12-15-2013 10:12 PM

The plans for one are in the back of my copy of Marquetry by Pierre Ramond, but I haven't put on together yet. Long story short, I'm probably moving back to New Jersey some time in the late spring or early summer. Once I get relocated I'll see what kind of space I have to work in, but until then more tools means more stuff to move. Also, if he still has the thing I'll be reasonably close enough to pick it up.
I did pick up a veneer saw from Gramercy tools last year and its fantastic. For now anything more intricate gets done with a razor knife or fret saw. It's much harder than it looks!

WarnerConstInc. 12-16-2013 06:51 PM

Stripped down and getting ready to paint the base.

Exlud 12-16-2013 07:18 PM

It looks like that had a belt drive. How do you plan on attaching a motor to it?

WarnerConstInc. 12-16-2013 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exlud (Post 1909644)
It looks like that had a belt drive. How do you plan on attaching a motor to it?

Flat belt drive from a motor.

WarnerConstInc. 12-16-2013 10:57 PM

5 Attachment(s)
Progress. Everything on the base is apart and half of the parts cleaned up.

All the wear parts are made of wood. The friction shoes for the drive are wood, the pitman arm, the take up for the lower blade guide assembly, the yoke for the tension springs on the top section is all wood.

PrestigeR&D 12-17-2013 02:37 PM

Interesting find..........

Hardly see those around....


hope you do a video of her running,,,,

Thanks for posting.,,



B,

Deckhead 12-17-2013 08:18 PM

What are you going to use it for? I understand some of the benefits but it seems they're offset by the amount of room it eats up.

Im quite ignorant when it comes to any of the old stuff.

knucklehead 12-17-2013 08:25 PM

Have you ever heard of a Mexican Donkey Show?

WarnerConstInc. 12-17-2013 08:32 PM

I have some exterior corbels to make, really thick ones will be its first work out.

The big advantage with this machine is there is no throat. I can do large sections of decorative fret work for exterior trim on old houses.

The foot print is rather small, one will just have to learn to deal with the upper section mounted to the ceiling.

Plus it fits in well my old, odd an unique colllection of machines that I use to maintain the old houses in my town.

WarnerConstInc. 12-17-2013 10:57 PM

All the parts on the bottom are clean and painted. I bet I have logged two hours in front of the parts slinger, er buffer with wire wheels.

I am still trying to clear the oil channel inside the drive arbor shaft.

Literature says to file or grind a slot in the blade to fit in the bottom mount. I see no reason for that, this looks like tension pulling up is the only thing that holds the blade in place on the lower mount.

I am kind of sad a little, but I think the table is too far gone to even try and salvage. It has had a good case of ants or the like.

I would like to assemble the lower half and then take the top half apart to clean it.

I guess my only source for blades is cutting up bandsaw blade stock?

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psea9acb13.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psc9fd0d96.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psfc0a1fd1.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps500152d9.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps6e3fbc0d.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...ps775f28f6.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psc27a745d.jpg

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...psadac0ce2.jpg

WarnerConstInc. 12-18-2013 11:47 PM

3 Attachment(s)
New top will be Cherry.

Bottom is almost back together.

Gave the lower bearings a quick scrape, fixed the oil channel in the arbor shaft issue and did some loose assembly.

PrestigeR&D 12-18-2013 11:55 PM

Sweet!!!!!!!!!

Nice ..........!


JMPOV, thick corbels...........:no:

Not going to happen on that machine.....

Gigerbread....Absolutly.....

jmpov.


B, (am I on your ignore list)......?

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 12:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Now how else are you supposed to cut out the inside details on a corbel?

Got to make these.

PrestigeR&D 12-19-2013 12:09 AM

BS ~ 1/4" PRJ/3TPI



we OWWM stick together...

B.,

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D (Post 1911457)
BS ~ 1/4" PRJ/3TPI



we OWWM stick together...

B.,

So I need to cut the blade, fish it through a hole then weld it back together on each one?

Yes, I realize I could make a cut through the top back of the corbel, but I don't wanna.

This will cut it just fine. It ain't no delta.:laughing:

Leo G 12-19-2013 12:14 AM

Closed back. Bandsaw won't do it unless you have a penetration cut which will weaken the structure.

PrestigeR&D 12-19-2013 12:18 AM

BS!

You want a video...\\

(Chest pumping Arn)\\


Ill do it.....:thumbsup:

no way on that machine,,,,,,,

not happening,,,,,,


BS ~ HANDS DOWN!

B, (patiently waiting for a response)..

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 12:24 AM

Ok, why can't the beach cut a 2" thick piece of wood to look like the picture posted?

Railman 12-19-2013 12:27 AM

Warner,
You sure have a knack for finding interesting machines!

It looks like that thing has about an 8" stroke! The cut should clean out nicely on thick material as long as you get the right blade. I'm guessing maybe about 6 to 8 tpi on a 1/4" blade would be a good place to start?
Have fun!
Joe

Railman 12-19-2013 12:36 AM

http://books.google.com/books?id=olo...0Beach&f=false

Look at pages 139 & 140

PrestigeR&D 12-19-2013 12:45 AM

not going to happen.....


short blade .......

:no: Frikin way..........




B.

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 12:51 AM

Just how short do you think the blade will be?

Railman 12-19-2013 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D (Post 1911486)
not going to happen.....


short blade .......

:no: Frikin way..........
B.

Why would the blade be short? The stroke apears to be about 8", which should clean out the thick cut nicely. That's close to what a normal hand saw stroke is.

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Railman (Post 1911490)
Why would the blade be short? The stroke apears to be about 8", which should clean out the thick cut nicely. That's close to what a normal hand saw stroke is.


I am thinking my blades will be somewhere around 16" long.


Arbor runs at 825 rpm, that should get me 825 cutting strokes per minute, cut and return per revolution.

Seems like it will cut what I want easily. I guess I will find out.

PrestigeR&D 12-19-2013 01:05 AM

D,

I just don't think its going to be a salubrious outcome......


B, (Tooth direction master),,...sometimes ~Bater)

Leo G 12-19-2013 08:09 AM

Yee of little faith.

That's why you have a festivus tree. :whistling

Railman 12-19-2013 08:51 AM

Blade speed for 825 rpm = 6" stroke x 2 x 825 rpm = 9900" blade travel per minute , div by 12 = 825 ft per minute blade speed. My 30" Tannny bs is around 3,000 ft per min. ...800 should be reasonable. The trick will probably getting the right blade & tension right. I'd start with a bimetal blade, possibly a heavier ferous duty blade with good set, & ground teeth.

Since the stroke is extremely long I don't see why it won't cut anything less than the length of the stroke, say a 6" stroke on 4" material. A Sawzall uses around a 1 1/8" stroke to cut 1 1/2" material fairly easily, albeit not in an ideal motion.

A good while back, I had a guy that wanted to come to work for me. He told me he had invented a recipricating lumber mill, & that it worked really well. If he got it to cut, yours should also.

You could also fashion a blank blade with sandpaper glued ( or maybe clamped) to both sides to sand out the interior cuts. The outer cuts could be done on a ribbon sander.

Have you measured the stroke........on the saw?:whistling
Joe

PrestigeR&D 12-19-2013 09:48 AM

I'm sorry if came across as being negative. I'll shut up......


I hope it works out for you D,






PS (Leave my festivus pole out of this)......:laughing:




B,

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 09:51 AM

If it was an oliver he wouldn't think it couldn't do it.
Of course I would have probably parted it out then....

Deckhead 12-19-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 1911630)
If it was an oliver he wouldn't think it couldn't do it.
Of course I would have probably parted it out then....

If that was the case after the table saw deal Brian might have made a visit to Indiana! :laughing:

As an aside would it be possible to use a resaw blade?

Two other things:
Where do you find the time to work on these things and get work done?
How do you actually locate these things?

tjbnwi 12-19-2013 10:27 AM

842 Attachment(s)
Carvex, use the long blade, cut from both sides to make the corbels.:thumbsup:

Tom

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjbnwi (Post 1911665)
Carvex, use the long blade, cut from both sides to make the corbels.:thumbsup:

Tom


While I don't doubt it would work, I am not making corbels for a 1868 farm house with my carvex.

They are only 2 1/2" thick.

tjbnwi 12-19-2013 10:32 AM

842 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 1911668)
While I don't doubt it would work, I am not making corbels for a 1868 farm house with my carvex.

They are only 2 1/2" thick.

Well then you only need to cut from one side.:thumbup:

(My first post was a meant to be a joke.)

If you we're closer I'd be asking to use one of your band saws. I'm going to end up modifying my horizontal to do some vertical work. Guess I should really go look at band saws.

Tom

WarnerConstInc. 12-19-2013 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckhead (Post 1911659)
If that was the case after the table saw deal Brian might have made a visit to Indiana! :laughing:

As an aside would it be possible to use a resaw blade?

Two other things:
Where do you find the time to work on these things and get work done?
How do you actually locate these things?


I can use whatever kind of blade I want, I am going to have to make them from bandsaw blade stock anyways. A course blade will require more sanding though.

I am doing some shop work so I fiddle with it a little during the day and then hit it hard after dinner until about midnight.

I have my sources to find these things.

WarnerConstInc. 12-22-2013 10:29 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Didn't get much done this weekend, had too many visitors drop by. Some buying, some selling, some telling stories.

Scored a deal at my millshop on some cherry handrail that was left over and rejects from a job last year. 100' for 50 bucks.

PrestigeR&D 12-23-2013 11:00 PM

You may want to look at scroll saw blades of today's saws,.....you will notice something about them that separates them from BS blades.....




B,

WarnerConstInc. 12-23-2013 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D (Post 1915500)
You may want to look at scroll saw blades of today's saws,.....you will notice something about them that separates them from BS blades.....

B,

They are not really compable. Band saw is not a scroll saw. What is your point? Oh no, I am going to have to figure out what works best, woa is me.

PrestigeR&D 12-23-2013 11:43 PM

You mentioned making your own out of A Band Saw blade...


There is a hopping affect if BS blades are chopped up and made for this type of scroll saw. Tooth set design- There is a topic on this over at the mother ship....



B,

WarnerConstInc. 12-23-2013 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D (Post 1915528)
You mentioned making your own out of A Band Saw blade...

There is a hopping affect if BS blades are chopped up and made for this type of scroll saw. Tooth set design- There is a topic on this over at the mother ship....

B,

Tooth set can be adjusted. There is a foot below the guides on these things to hold the work piece down to the table. Pictures of the old blades for these things look just like BS stock.

WarnerConstInc. 12-23-2013 11:56 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Did some xmas shopping today, even picked up a few things for myself. I was able to find what I thought was an appropriate motor. Got in my pulley stash and found the correct paper pulley I needed, found an appropriate sized starter and was able to glue the table halves together.

Deckhead 12-23-2013 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarnerConstInc. (Post 1915537)
Did some xmas shopping today, even picked up a few things for myself. I was able to find what I thought was an appropriate motor. Got in my pulley stash and found the correct paper pulley I needed, found an appropriate sized starter and was able to glue the table halves together.

How do you flatten that table to be perfect?

PrestigeR&D 12-24-2013 12:09 AM

I am looking forward to seeing her fired up.........I've seen a boat load of pictures on the mothership but no video.....


So THATs what the cherry wood was for,,,,,,.:laughing:


I think he has a 16" jointer Deck, my guess is he will be doing a side by skim over the jointer head (guard removed)....then hand plane and sand the middle to flat

How big is that table anyways.....:blink:....


B,

Deckhead 12-24-2013 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrestigeR&D (Post 1915548)
I am looking forward to seeing her fired up.........I've seen a boat load of pictures on the mothership but no video.....


So THATs what the cherry wood was for,,,,,,.:laughing:


I think he has a 16" jointer Deck, my guess is he will be doing a side by skim over the jointer head (guard removed)....then hand plane and sand the middle to flat

How big is that table anyways.....:blink:....


B,

Oh my, that's some heavy lifting right there.

I thought he might have some early American skinning torture device that doubled as an enormous planer.:laughing:

This just came to me... Darcy do you guys hook up power feeder's to those older machine's? And what about dust collection, do they even have them and if so, does it work well? Now I'm afraid I'm starting to head down a very dangerous road.:eek:

WarnerConstInc. 12-24-2013 12:32 AM

The halves were pretty flat when I glued them up, one was just shy of 23" wide the other was 21". Both too wide for my 20" jointer. I set the bed rollers up a bit on my planer and skimmed the bottom, skimmed the top, then the bottom and top again. Put three 10mm dominoes in before I joined the halves. two of those clamps are older then the scroll saw. It is almost dead flat.

Literature called for a 38x40 or 40x40 table. the one on it was 36x38. as it sits it is 42 x 41 and heavy. I think I will trim it to 38x38.


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