Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods - Construction - Contractor Talk

Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2005, 09:55 PM   #1
Painting Contractor
 
Humble Abode's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,176
Rewards Points: 500

Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


My brother owns a retail business in a strip mall. It is a fitness club. Being a fitness club they are bumping music all day long. The Armed Services recruiting station next door is complaining about the noise.

The wall is 18' high with all but 1' - 2' at the top being drywall.



We spoke with a sound proofing expert in California and his suggestion would cost nearly $5000 in materials alone and we would have to do all the work ourselves. We are more than willing to do all the work ourselves.

We need an inexpensive way to sheild them from the sound. something to dampen the noise even a little bit.

This is a very real problem that needs to be solved fast, as they are already threatening to have him evicted and the landlords seem to be in the corner of recruiters.

Does any one have any suggestions or experience with sound proofing?
__________________
Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe. Kurt Vonnegut, (1922 - 2007) from the Novel 'Hocus Pocus'
The NAPP
Milwaukee Painting Contractor
Humble Abode is offline  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 08-06-2005, 10:09 PM   #2
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,683
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


If cost is the main factor, it seems like fiberglass batts is gonna be your least expensive route. Those pipes and conduits passing through the wall will pass sound pretty effectively on their own. With no celing in that space (is it still that way?) even the roof decking will transmit the sound. The 5K proposed remediation by the sound contractor sounds pretty cheap to me in any event, especially if it comes with a performance guarantee.

Advertisement

mdshunk is offline  
Old 08-06-2005, 10:17 PM   #3
Painting Contractor
 
Humble Abode's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,176
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdshunk
With no celing in that space (is it still that way?)
Yea it's still that way. It would have cost a lot more to install a drop ceiling than to have your little brothers painting company paint it . And we felt it would look a lot 'cooler' raw. We were right on both counts.

I hadn't thought about the conduit transfering sound. So bassically what your saying is install some fiberglass insulation on top of the existing steel gap?

Another question comes up. What is the direct corolation of R-value to sound dampening? There has got to be some figures out there on it. I'm off to do a google search.

Thanks MD
__________________
Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe. Kurt Vonnegut, (1922 - 2007) from the Novel 'Hocus Pocus'
The NAPP
Milwaukee Painting Contractor
Humble Abode is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-06-2005, 10:19 PM   #4
Pro
 
plumguy's Avatar
 
Trade: plumbing and heating
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MA
Posts: 295
Rewards Points: 250

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Whatever you decide make sure it is fire proof. We had a tragic fire (nightclub) in Rhode Island a couple of years from sound proofing that was brought in by the band.
plumguy is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:35 AM   #5
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,471
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Unfortunately, there is nothing cheap that I know of. You are covering a wide range of frequencies and each needs to be stopped. Sound walls can be 6-10" thick and cost mega bucks.
That looks like a big place. Maybe wireless headsets might be the answer. If your'e bumpin', there is nothing that you can do. Low freqs go through everything.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:36 AM   #6
Pro
 
reveivl's Avatar
 
Trade: Renovations
Join Date: May 2005
Location: West Coast Canada
Posts: 1,716
Rewards Points: 1,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Sound is a tough one, the best soundproofing is not pink insulation, it's mass. put in resilient channel and another layer of drywall would help. Then there's the heavy rubber mats that will do the most, but like md says $5000 sounds cheap for that stuff. Check out this site, not totally helpful, but gives you some info, Rich. http://soundproofing.org/infopages/faqs.htm
__________________
From where does knowledge come? If you need to know what is in a box, you could ask someone (not reliable), you could pray, (not useful), you can consult with the scripture (not helpful) or you could open the box (science)
reveivl is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 01:00 AM   #7
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,471
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Mass is true but you have to address the entire freq. range. Lead is still the preferred hi freq. killer. Variable density foams, wood, etc. help absorb low densities.
If you are pumping in the really low Hz, there is no help. Blue Whales can communicate over 3,500 miles of open ocean with low feqs.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 09:43 AM   #8
Painting Contractor
 
Humble Abode's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,176
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by Teetorbilt
Mass is true but you have to address the entire freq. range. Lead is still the preferred hi freq. killer. Variable density foams, wood, etc. help absorb low densities.
If you are pumping in the really low Hz, there is no help. Blue Whales can communicate over 3,500 miles of open ocean with low feqs.
There isn't even a subwoofer being used. It's basically two four inch tweeters putting out the mid range bass.

We were thinking of angleing out the top two feet with OSB or drywall. Then blowing insulation in behind it. What do you think?

Another question. This is a strip mall with metel stud walls. The wall in question is an interior wall, obviously. Do builders typically put insulation in interior walls in commercial spaces?
__________________
Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe. Kurt Vonnegut, (1922 - 2007) from the Novel 'Hocus Pocus'
The NAPP
Milwaukee Painting Contractor
Humble Abode is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 10:05 AM   #9
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,683
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble Abode
The wall in question is an interior wall, obviously. Do builders typically put insulation in interior walls in commercial spaces?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I did a tennant refit for a Quizno's sub shop a few months ago, and there was no insulation in the common walls.
mdshunk is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 10:09 AM   #10
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,683
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble Abode
The wall in question is an interior wall, obviously. Do builders typically put insulation in interior walls in commercial spaces?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I did a tennant refit for a Quizno's sub shop a few months ago, and there was no insulation in the common walls. I had to fish for an extra receptacle in a common wall at a Chinese Buffet place recently and there was insulation in that wall. I guess you might just have to cut a hole in somewhere and look. Regardless, the drywall is screwed right on the studs, and they transmit sound very well. This is why the resiliant Z channels are used on the studs in soundproofing applications. If your space was being refit for, say, a doctor's or lawyer's office or somthing like that, they'd in all likelihood build an entire insulated wall an inch or two inboard of the existing common wall. I've seen that done many times.
mdshunk is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 11:33 AM   #11
...jammin
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Trade: Rock Disciple
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 5,234
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by Humble Abode
We spoke with a sound proofing expert in California and his suggestion would cost nearly $5000 in materials alone and we would have to do all the work ourselves. We are more than willing to do all the work ourselves.

We need an inexpensive way to sheild them from the sound. something to dampen the noise even a little bit.

Does any one have any suggestions or experience with sound proofing?
Yes I am a sound proofing/deadening dealer/installer
It's not my primary, it just sort of worked out that way
I am by no means an acoustician
But I do use one that works for the vender

$5000 doesn't sound out of line, but exactly what did he suggest for the $5000 (the acousticians tend to go a bit overboard, what we consider OK and what they consider OK can be a bit different)

I'll tell you what I think
In this situation, homesote would have been nice under the drywall
Or a sound proof super-high density fabric under there
Even on just the shared wall
It doesn't sound like you guys have the time for that kind of retro-fit project now
If you think you can get the drywall down and up again quickly it may be worth considering

It needs a drop ceiling stat, and some of the ceiling panels should be Base-Eaters
Some Sound Absorbing Panels on the walls will help also
They are amazing at absorbing sound

None of this is cheap, but maybe he can start with a few wall panels and if it helps, but not enough, order more
Looks like he'll need a bunch though
It could be less than 5K and might do it
I think he may need that drop ceiling though...I really think that's key

Let me know if you're interested, I'll try and send some info you're way

Very important:
The horrible nightclub fire in RI really hammers home the point about cheap sound insulation
(I am a musician in several bands that play around New England)
I see that stuff all the time and have used it before
Thoughts of The Station fire still sends chills down my spine
Just don't do it...

Also: There is no technical correlation between r-value and sound deadening properties
As mentioned above, what's good for heat/cold insulation is not good for sound insulation
There is a scale like the R-value, but for acoustics
You just don't see it except on specialty materials, such as we are discussing here
slickshift is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:07 PM   #12
Pro
 
JustaFramer's Avatar
 
Trade: Exiled For Life
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lynnwood,WA
Posts: 3,292
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


There is a sound proofing that I used in between party wall in condos units. I don't remember the name but is about 3/4" thick we called it sound board. I am sure it is cheap or relatively inexpensive because they let the framer install it. LOL
JustaFramer is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:38 PM   #13
Painting Contractor
 
Humble Abode's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,176
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift
Yes I am a sound proofing/deadening dealer/installer
It's not my primary, it just sort of worked out that way
I am by no means an acoustician
But I do use one that works for the vender

$5000 doesn't sound out of line, but exactly what did he suggest for the $5000 (the acousticians tend to go a bit overboard, what we consider OK and what they consider OK can be a bit different)

I'll tell you what I think
In this situation, homesote would have been nice under the drywall
Or a sound proof super-high density fabric under there
Even on just the shared wall
It doesn't sound like you guys have the time for that kind of retro-fit project now
If you think you can get the drywall down and up again quickly it may be worth considering

It needs a drop ceiling stat, and some of the ceiling panels should be Base-Eaters
Some Sound Absorbing Panels on the walls will help also
They are amazing at absorbing sound

None of this is cheap, but maybe he can start with a few wall panels and if it helps, but not enough, order more
Looks like he'll need a bunch though
It could be less than 5K and might do it
I think he may need that drop ceiling though...I really think that's key

Let me know if you're interested, I'll try and send some info you're way

Very important:
The horrible nightclub fire in RI really hammers home the point about cheap sound insulation
(I am a musician in several bands that play around New England)
I see that stuff all the time and have used it before
Thoughts of The Station fire still sends chills down my spine
Just don't do it...

Also: There is no technical correlation between r-value and sound deadening properties
As mentioned above, what's good for heat/cold insulation is not good for sound insulation
There is a scale like the R-value, but for acoustics
You just don't see it except on specialty materials, such as we are discussing here
I was afraid someone would say that... it's very depressing news. The last thing we want to do is install drop ceilings. Couldn't we just build out the section of wall in the area where we were losing the sound?

this picture is a mess but...


Framing it out where the drywall ends to the ceiling at a 45 degree angle and blowing insulation down behind?
__________________
Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe. Kurt Vonnegut, (1922 - 2007) from the Novel 'Hocus Pocus'
The NAPP
Milwaukee Painting Contractor
Humble Abode is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:49 PM   #14
...jammin
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Trade: Rock Disciple
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 5,234
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


It'll help but not nearly enough, not even close
You've got a giant metal echo chamber up there
You have to stop the sound from bouncing around up there
If you really want to keep the open ceiling...
Hmmm....
You could suspend some sound absorbing panels up there
I'll look at the pics again, did you include some dimensions I don't recall?
That could help if you didn't already
I'll be back
slickshift is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 12:55 PM   #15
...jammin
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Trade: Rock Disciple
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 5,234
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


You don't have a pic of what it looks like finished do you?
How big is that wall?
Can you put up some firring strips and another wall over that one, or is that too much?
slickshift is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 01:06 PM   #16
DGR,IABD
 
mdshunk's Avatar
 
Trade: Electrical; Commercial and Residential Service
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Central PA
Posts: 9,683
Rewards Points: 2,002

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Humble... I think you're under the mistaken impression that the only area trasferring sound is that 2' area at the top of the wall that only appears to have one layer of drywall. The slab, the roof deck, the conduits, and the entire common wall itself are transferring sound to varying degrees. While mitigating sound transmission at the top of the wall should help, it's not the be all and end all of your problem.
mdshunk is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 01:24 PM   #17
...jammin
 
slickshift's Avatar
 
Trade: Rock Disciple
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cape Cod, Massachusetts
Posts: 5,234
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


I have to agree with mdshunk
The whole wall is an issue here
...sigh...that wall is huge isn't it?
I was looking at the mud patches and figured where the studs were

OK, Your plan with the angled ceiling
Frame it out and "drywall" it with homesote first, then sheetrock
It's gonna be hairy cutting hole for those tubes in the homesote
Maybe a layer of this

"...To Block Noise
Increases Wall Mass without increasing its Depth -- just 1/8" thick! STC=27
Prevents unwanted sound transmission through walls, ceilings, and floors.
54 inches wide.
Available in full rolls ... or by the linear foot."

I think you should cover the whole wall with this stuff or homesote and put up another wall over it, that would probably do it

Next up I'd consider some sound absorbing panels
I'd get the hanging kind and suspend them from the ceiling

Stick them up im between tose pipes and absorb some of that sound bouncing around up there

If that's not enough I'd put in some big sound absorbing panels on the walls
You can get them as big as 4' x 10'

But really what you want to do is block the sound
You're angle ceiling and that dense vinyl barrier on that wall would probably do it
You'll still have "The slab, the roof deck, the conduits" but at least the wall would be good
slickshift is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 01:40 PM   #18
Painting Contractor
 
Humble Abode's Avatar
 
Trade: Painting Contractor
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,176
Rewards Points: 500

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Quote:
Originally Posted by slickshift
...sigh...that wall is huge isn't it?
Yea it's friggin enormous. It's about 20' tall and over 150' long. The picture I am using is just a small section of it. You guys have been awesome *thank* you so much for your responses.

*EDIT=thank you, not, that you lol I was in a hurry*
__________________
Just because some of us can read and write and do a little math, that doesn't mean we deserve to conquer the Universe. Kurt Vonnegut, (1922 - 2007) from the Novel 'Hocus Pocus'
The NAPP
Milwaukee Painting Contractor

Last edited by Humble Abode; 08-07-2005 at 11:20 PM.
Humble Abode is offline  
Old 08-07-2005, 06:08 PM   #19
Pro
 
Teetorbilt's Avatar
 
Trade: Residential Contractor
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jensen Beach, FL
Posts: 10,471
Rewards Points: 2,000

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Slickshift has offered some valuable info.
My level of expertise falls into two catagories, home theaters and engine room sound control on yachts.
__________________
You can't solve you're problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems.

Albert Einstein
Teetorbilt is offline  
Old 08-08-2005, 08:37 AM   #20
Registered User
 
Ed Michnick's Avatar
 
Trade: General Contractor/Trim carpenter
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: West Chicago, IL
Posts: 18
Rewards Points: 22

Re: Inexpensive Sound Proofing Methods


Look at a product called QuietRock. It cost about $80.00 a sheet.
www.quietsolutions.com

Advertisement

Ed Michnick is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sound Proofing a Bathroom RussellF Remodeling 19 11-22-2011 11:23 PM
sound proofing JamesNLA Construction 2 12-20-2006 05:17 PM
Damp proofing / water proofing denick Excavation & Site Work 5 04-21-2006 04:21 PM
sound proofing izote61 Construction 6 12-09-2005 09:16 AM
Sound Proofing HVAC Equipment hoek HVAC 1 10-05-2005 09:42 AM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?