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Good Cop/ Bad Cop

12K views 82 replies 22 participants last post by  tedanderson 
#1 ·
Well, I find myself in a situation where I get the role of bad cop. I am in between projects, and got sent to help out another one of our superintendents. The project is a mean and nasty reno of a school in one of the worst areas of Nashville, while it is being occupied. 1950's building, lead paint abatement, asbestos abatement, radon treatment, gut to a shell, rebuild a few wings at a time. He has a 4 phased schedule and phase 1 has to turn over december 16 so that they can move into phase 1 and vacate phase 2. It's not hopeless, but it's close.

The super is a little younger than I , but in his 40's and has plenty of experience, his problem is he is too nice a guy, so I get sent out here to be the bad guy, set up weekly meetings with subs (which he hasn't been having) and expedite answers from the PM's and architect. So far I have pissed off all the people listed in this paragraph, but it seems to be having the desired affect, progress is starting to accelerate.

Yesterday one of the school board members caught a guy smoking in the building and the chit hit the fan. I print up and post signs all over the job that anyone caught smoking will be removed from the job. I told all the foreman that I am just waiting for one guy to make an example of. That earned me a bunch of friends.

Got a meeting arranged for tommorrow with all the PM's, supers and foreman. Other super tells me this afternoon that we really better stick together at this meeting cause "all the guys on the job are really mad" I said "mad about what? Somebody making them do what they agreed to do when they signed their contracts?" Looks like he is going to continue to be the good cop. :rolleyes:

Rant over.
 
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#2 ·
I don't call it bad cop. More like mercenary.

About once a year I'll get a job from a property manager where they'll give me 3* the work theyre maintenance crew does, just to show them it can be done & they can be replaced.

My longest client actually started that way. He says "If I have to hire bill, that's money you DON'T get." Man those guys hate me... (he pays piecerate)

Talk about getting dirty looks.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Most effective way to get people moving is hit them in the pocket book. Do that enough times and sh!t starts happening. I've worked for my share of Large commercial builders and got to see first hand how the moving and shaking was done. Sometimes it's like trying to pick a turd up by the clean end.
 
#7 ·
In my limited experience as a Commercial Super, schools included, I rarely got to finish any job I started......

Was always sent to fix a job that was behind schedule, phucked up or owners pissed off.....

Me a PR guy.....yea right.....

First day on the job....

MANDATORY sub meeting in 48 hours....

Don't give a rats a$$ where you are or what you are doing....
If you ain't here you have abandoned the job...

Tell PM to lose my cell # for the next week.....

I'll call him IF I need anything....

I am here to kick arse and take names....

We are not friends....

EVERY sub has read the General Conditions, safety rules & general job requirements....read...NO SMOKING....

I meet with each sub & want to know WHY you ain't performing?
Interesting answers.....

Resolve issues, stop fighting, get rid of non-performing company crew. Bring in MY labor force.

Clean up & organize the fuster cluck....

Get required materials to job....

Re-establish relations with inspectors....

By the time I got there original Super was long gone....

Usually very ugly for the first week...

Then we rolled right along....everything working as intended.....

Then I get a phone call.........:laughing::laughing:
 
#8 ·
Ill tell on myself a bit.

My third commercial project as the super was a whole floor demo and replace on a state high rise in Austin. I was 24.

The first two projects were 1/5 this size combined.

Week 3 my boss sent a "seasoned" "project manager" , he was really a super who got forced into PM, to tell me what was up.

What was up is I was a" dog squeege on the bottom of a real supers shoe, but your who we got"::blink: He spent three hours reviewing my "job log" , budget and date of completion. He told me you have really :censored: it up, but here is how to fix it.....

Two hours later I saw the light. :laughing:

Just bought that dude a burger last month when I was in Austin. Still a hard azz, still a bad azz :thumbup:

One of my big screw ups was not spending enough time upfront scheduling subs and setting release dates for materials, another was sub communication, another was being to soft with inhouse guys I was friends with. ....... and some other stuff :whistling


Learned a lot over the following 2 years.
 
#9 ·
mudpad said:
Well, I find myself in a situation where I get the role of bad cop. I am in between projects, and got sent to help out another one of our superintendents. The project is a mean and nasty reno of a school in one of the worst areas of Nashville, while it is being occupied. 1950's building, lead paint abatement, asbestos abatement, radon treatment, gut to a shell, rebuild a few wings at a time. He has a 4 phased schedule and phase 1 has to turn over december 16 so that they can move into phase 1 and vacate phase 2. It's not hopeless, but it's close. The super is a little younger than I , but in his 40's and has plenty of experience, his problem is he is too nice a guy, so I get sent out here to be the bad guy, set up weekly meetings with subs (which he hasn't been having) and expedite answers from the PM's and architect. So far I have pissed off all the people listed in this paragraph, but it seems to be having the desired affect, progress is starting to accelerate. Yesterday one of the school board members caught a guy smoking in the building and the chit hit the fan. I print up and post signs all over the job that anyone caught smoking will be removed from the job. I told all the foreman that I am just waiting for one guy to make an example of. That earned me a bunch of friends. Got a meeting arranged for tommorrow with all the PM's, supers and foreman. Other super tells me this afternoon that we really better stick together at this meeting cause "all the guys on the job are really mad" I said "mad about what? Somebody making them do what they agreed to do when they signed their contracts?" Looks like he is going to continue to be the good cop. :rolleyes: Rant over.
Sounds like you got 'er handled.

I haven't done much commercial, but learning to not make decisions and judgement calls based on whether or not I would piss people off was one of the best lessons I ever learned.
 
#12 ·
It's like baby sitting, my wife as a third grade teacher told me something that holds true even to adults. She said she can never tell a joke to her kids in class because she will lose the whole class. She said they can't handle it. Same thing when your in a position of authority, you give an inch they WILL take a mile.
 
#15 ·
I've worked in commercial construction for some time and I know the exact type of 'bad cop' you are referring to.

Now there are two types, the guy that is stern but fair, calculating and an effective problem solver...and the guy that thinks he owns the job, can boss around the subs, rides people every minuet of the day etc.

I think the former is vastly superior.

Respect is mutual, if the subs respect you and you respect them they will follow your orders. Much like children if they dislike you they will go out of their way to make your life more difficult.

I still wouldn't define your roll as "bad cop" but it sounds like the previous site super is more of a "door mat".
 
#23 ·
Inner10 said:
Give an inch take a mile only applies for people who have no respect for you, these people shouldn't be working for you in the first place.
I wasn't talking about working for me, I was talking about when I used to work for a commercial contractor, the supers had problems with subs, that's a fact of life. We were building prisons, hospitals their not all going to be respectful. That's a fact of life. The supers don't hire the subs.
 
#25 ·
Being firm and expecting people to do their jobs is one thing, being a socio-path is something else. I've worked for two individuals who likened themselves to "the bad cop", but I am firmly convinced they were full on job site socio-paths.

Individual (1) was a Boilermaker who had a pathological need to be in charge, and by shear force ( and decidedly not force of personality, which was lacking) pushed himself several rungs higher than even the Peter Principle would have. He then had to make up for these intellectual shortcomings by sickening glibness to superiors and rage and blame onto subordinates.

Individual (2) is the General Superintendent of a large GC firm. The owner is a good salesman, and a pathological lier. This forces Individual (2) to act as a heavy to get his boss (and lover?) out of pickles. He does this without remorse and with no regard to right or wrong, only his own well being.

I've known others who while not as egregious as the above, prided themselves as being the bad cop, but this was based on being a tattle tale and being so dumb that they didn't know the issues they were narcing out were the direct result of their own stupidity, which everyone else knew.

While I am certainly not implying that Mudpad or Grizz are such individuals, when I meet somebody on a job-site and they boast that they are the bad cop, I start looking for tell tale signs of severe mental retardation.
 
#26 ·
And I want to stress I am not saying anything negative about Mud or G, who are talking on a forum. I'm talking about real life on a job site.

Myself, I've always felt a sacrificial head lobbing or two on the most useless, irritating, problematical or chronically late employees does wonder for keeping everyone in line. I've been accused of being soft on the subs, but when pushed, the actual allegation is that I wouldn't lie to cover up for the boss (pathological lier (2)). I've almost always had the subs perform well, and have in fact cover upped my screw-ups. So the key is to treat people respectfully, and hit them with a ton of bricks if they 'diss' you by being first class f-ups.
 
#35 · (Edited)
This thread should be required reading for all apprentices and new hires. My old man was a bit of a tyrant if you were a screw up. He expected you to show up on time and work.

Thats the image I grew up with, but years later I found out how one of the guys got a DUI and so he didn't fire the guy, he just stayed in the (we had a lumber yard) yard and worked there. I asked the old man why the guy wasn't fired, he said the guy is human we all make mistakes, and he's used up his only free one, and he has little kids to support.

It was about a year later that it happened again, and that was it- fired. This was in the 60's, there was no re-hab programs or anything like that.

If you were late? you got it with both barrels. Being the "son" of the boss I got it double, (in front of the crew) no slack. I hated that so much!

It wasn't long after I was in my 20's that I came to appreciate his dicipline. I get very upset now if I am going to be late to the job, which is hardly ever, and I am self employed!

I taught that to my kids, and my son who just finished welding school got to use the equipment at the college for an extra two weeks due to good attitude and attendance. This allowed him to get up another level in his welding ticket.

I told them both, it's easy to stand out on the job. Show up on time and bust your a$$.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Who were you hired by, and under what terms.... are you saying you have no boss ever.

I'm a GC.... and my subs had better work for me and take my orders.... within the terms of our contract/agreement......

now I don't meddle in their routine, as long as it is satisfactory and safe, but yes, I just had some painters pull down a 30 foot ladder with a 10 foot extension "rope tied onto it".... and I often have to discuss/order subs to correct something.... and yes I expect them to work when they agreed to, "not when they want".

You must be some special plumber that can dictate everything you "what/when/where" you want......

Matter of fact, I consider I have a boss,(the man paying me) that I report to, within our contract's/ agreement and change orders.
 
#38 ·
rex said:
Any "GC" tries to tell me what to do and how to run my show will get told to fist themselves and I'm gone. I don't need their money and I do what I want when I want. Simple.
Do you sign a contract with your GC? A guy like you would absolutely sign a contract on my jobs, dictating what you will or will not do. It's not optional. I have subs that I don't have written agreements with, but the ones like you I make damn sure I do.
 
#42 ·
Inner10 said:
234...but who's counting. Relax it was a joke...my point was what makes you think that you would need a contract with him but not another contractor?
Subs that work for me do what I ask them to do, because I'm never unreasonable, but someone who is not willing to do what I tell them, needs a contract to do it. Something has to tell them what is expected of them.
 
#45 ·
MTN REMODEL LLC said:
Yeah..... I'm sure that fellow would not appreciate working coopertively with me, and I sure would never give him a job after I learned his attitude.... and Cali.... somehow I bet you wouldn't either... even with an "iron clad Phildelpia contreact"... just my bet. Despite our reliance/advice on contracts, we all have subs that we just plain do not need a contract.... sometimes a man's handshake is worth a ****-load more than a 20 page contract. Best
I've known my subs for many years and none have an attitude like that. Phuck we golf together for gawds sakes, that speaks volumes. :laughing:
 
#46 ·
Inner10 said:
There is a difference between a sub and an employee though...you'd ask an employee to drop what their doing and get you a coffee, a sub you don't boss around in the same manor.
I agree, this is the reasonable part I'm talking about. But if I ask my sub if he can have a guy out there to reroute a gas line because it's in the way of my HVAC ducts and it's holding up the whole job, it's reasonable to expect this ASAP. Especially when ran the gas line through the AC closet. This really happened by the way, and my plumbing sub had a guy there that day. I can imagine a sub with a bad attitude could say nothing on the plans says I couldn't put it there. It's an extra to move it.
 
#52 ·
Inner10 said:
It's in his right to tell you to piss off...if he never wants your business again. What I'm saying is subs work with you, employees work for you.
It's in my right to get someone else to move the pipe and he will pay for it. Especially when I told him this closet is for HVAC. It's the golden rule, the guy with the gold rules.
 
#58 ·
I understand, but it was a Rex joke. He hadnt been around much, you may not know him well yet. But he screws everything, and it is a running comment about him screwing someones wife for revenge.
 
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