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Cutting A Roof...

 
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Old 07-20-2018, 10:57 AM   #21
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


I'd like to learn more to do more. We were taught how to hand cut and layout unequal pitch rafters in our apprenticeship, but even then we were told that it would most likely never get used.
I've still got all my books from that time, so I can refer back to it if the opportunity ever comes up.

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Old 07-20-2018, 01:46 PM   #22
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Done them upside down and backwards, kinda almost literally. Worst was two remodels back in the early 90's. Cut in bearing valleys, dbl LVLs and the the jack valleys. Both had 3-4 inch variations of pitch. Nothing like spending a couple days in an attic with the mistress Mrs Sawzall cutting rafters to slip the valleys into. LOL Only got one shot at getting the layout, angles of cuts, valley centers, valley drop etc ... right. I'm a prick about, lengths, pitches and angles being spot on.

That kind of bastard of a bastard, gotta do the math. I never bothered with the construction master calculators, just used the good old pafagoreon (Pythagorean) theorem and simple proportion equations. 5/12=x/15.875 and solve for x. And always do the equation twice and werite it down, check for fat finger errors. Set the stops on the framing square and if needing angles for saw cuts used speed square to convert pitch to relevant angles.

View roof cutting a little different than most, i guess. Geometry always clicked with me. Figure all the theory lines first, then apply all the roof cutting stuff, like calculating backing off, drops ,,, from there.
About calculating trig functions, fahq that chit. Framing and speed squares work just as well and the vast majority of carpenters at least sort of get how those work.

Worked with carpenters who exclusively strung lines to frame roofs. Hell I did it often early on. But having done and having confidence in the math (correct), makes dealing with the imperfections, bows, cups, warps and not so squareness much easier. So all that chit don't send in the wrong direction and woodchucking a quarter of the roof load wrong.

Thinking back somehow I seemed to always got the funky chit to frame. Frequently yeartned for a straight 5/12 roof. Guess I wasn't smart enough to say no to the kewl jobs.
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:47 PM   #23
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


So you guys that are still doing stick-built roofs regularly, what kind of tools are you using?

Are you gang-cutting what you can, like plumb cuts, with a beam saw or chainsaw?

Do you gang-cut birdsmouths, with a Bigfoot and swing table, or just do them individually?

The days of the worm drive mounted dado blade are over I guess.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:26 PM   #24
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


I'm not who you're looking for, but I'll bump this.

These days, I do 250 sqft and smaller acessory buildings. 2X4 or 2X6 handcut rafters.

I gang cut the plumb cuts with the rafters on the flat, so even a 6 1/2 cordless will do the cut, but I prefer tbe 7 1/4 corded for cutting speed. Half the bird's mouth is gang cut with rafters on edge, and finished off individually.

2X8 or larger, I'd switch to chainsaw for plumb cuts, and bigfoot with swing table for bird's mouth.

You can get a smooth cut if the chain is tensioned and sharpened to do it. I use it for 8" and larger timbers.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:30 PM   #25
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


I've done a couple, or so. This is probably the best example I have a pic of. The octagon isn't symmetrical, so there are two pitches involved on that. The pitch on the main roof are also unequal from side to side and front to back. Total of 4 different pitches, equal overhangs, all fascias are aligned and to make the difficulty level about as high as it can get, the inside also had to line up and a barrel vault thrown in for fun.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:34 PM   #26
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Like many, I like to think I can, I learned the framing square like a lot of guys..on the job in the 70s. That said, I am way too old to be up there, so it would have to be on the ground. My grandfather was the one with a handsaw and a framing square to do it in the air.
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Old 07-29-2018, 03:42 PM   #27
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by loneframer View Post
I've done a couple, or so. This is probably the best example I have a pic of. The octagon isn't symmetrical, so there are two pitches involved on that. The pitch on the main roof are also unequal from side to side and front to back. Total of 4 different pitches, equal overhangs, all fascias are aligned and to make the difficulty level about as high as it can get, the inside also had to line up and a barrel vault thrown in for fun.
Where the hell have you been?

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Old 07-29-2018, 05:20 PM   #28
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inner10 View Post
Where the hell have you been?

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Old 07-29-2018, 05:21 PM   #29
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


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Not much to post about since the HOH saga.
Haven't worked since?

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Old 07-29-2018, 05:36 PM   #30
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Takes a while but i can do it.
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Old 07-29-2018, 08:42 PM   #31
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


I learned a short cut with the Frenchman building condos , I could lay out the rafters on the ground and cut them quicker than a guy with the square.... just saying
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:50 PM   #32
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


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I learned a short cut with the Frenchman building condos , I could lay out the rafters on the ground and cut them quicker than a guy with the square.... just saying
Give it up.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:08 PM   #33
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Yes. Overframes are common but I'll also order trusses for large overframe areas to speed up install where possible.
Hips and valleys, yes.

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Old 07-31-2018, 10:58 PM   #34
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hdavis View Post
I'm not who you're looking for, but I'll bump this.

These days, I do 250 sqft and smaller acessory buildings. 2X4 or 2X6 handcut rafters.

I gang cut the plumb cuts with the rafters on the flat, so even a 6 1/2 cordless will do the cut, but I prefer tbe 7 1/4 corded for cutting speed. Half the bird's mouth is gang cut with rafters on edge, and finished off individually.

2X8 or larger, I'd switch to chainsaw for plumb cuts, and bigfoot with swing table for bird's mouth.

You can get a smooth cut if the chain is tensioned and sharpened to do it. I use it for 8" and larger timbers.
Not roof framing, but I just gang-cut a couple bunks of 27 BC I-Joists, 12" deep ones, with a 24" chainsaw.

Turned out dead-nuts on.

Even impressed some guys who use chainsaws all the time in the woods.
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Old 08-01-2018, 06:23 PM   #35
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Sometime in the early 80’s I made these little cheat sheets- they and a cheap pocket calculator were my first baby steps away from being strictly a framing square guy
Wondering if anyone else used this method?
It was my attempt to apply the trig I had learned from the square, and simplify the process, or at least change it to be easily teachable to some of my guys


http://www.contractortalk.com/attach...1&d=1533165627

Sorry- crappy phone pics
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:06 PM   #36
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Seven-Delta-FortyOne View Post
So you guys that are still doing stick-built roofs regularly, what kind of tools are you using?

Are you gang-cutting what you can, like plumb cuts, with a beam saw or chainsaw?

Do you gang-cut birdsmouths, with a Bigfoot and swing table, or just do them individually?

The days of the worm drive mounted dado blade are over I guess.
Those days aren't over for everyone. There's a fellow out in California that I follow on Instagram that is strictly a roof cutter and uses all those Will Holladay methods you describe. Really cool to see his production techniques for hand cut roofs.
https://www.instagram.com/theroofcutter/
https://www.facebook.com/framing.roofcutter
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:44 PM   #37
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


I still ALWAYS keep a little blue book in the truck
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Old 08-01-2018, 10:52 PM   #38
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


that worm drive dado was quite something to see & use...

there used to be a machine shop in sac that would do the conversion...

only seen them on the all metal 77's.

probably guys on here never seen or used an all metal 77...
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:53 PM   #39
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
that worm drive dado was quite something to see & use...

there used to be a machine shop in sac that would do the conversion...

only seen them on the all metal 77's.

probably guys on here never seen or used an all metal 77...
Got one.

Installed the 10 1/4" Bigfoot conversion on it.
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Old 08-02-2018, 05:46 PM   #40
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Re: Cutting A Roof...


Come to think of it, you're probably talking about one of these:

Mine is not like this one.
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