Cutting A Roof... - Construction - Contractor Talk

Cutting A Roof...

 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-19-2018, 12:49 AM   #1
Fire up the BBQ
 
griz's Avatar
 
Trade: GC
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: ex-calif
Posts: 23,469
Rewards Points: 2,682

Cutting A Roof...


Just curious...

How many of you guys can cut a real bastard roof?

Not gables or easy hips....

I know a guy named Sim?? and a dude Jaws knows in Texas can do it...

not trying to put anyone down...but can you do it?

requires knowing how to use a frame square....

ok, maybe i'm dating myself with the frame square....

now days with apps and calculators.....

I learned from two very old school gentlemen how to cut a real bastard roof, but all I knew how to use was a frame square and a tape...

No BS, who can do it?????


and do you younger guys have any interest in learning this trade?
__________________
SOME JOBS JUST AREN'T WORTH DOING:

Last edited by griz; 07-19-2018 at 01:00 AM.
griz is online now  

Warning: The topics covered on this site include activities in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ContractorTalk.com DOES NOT guarantee the accuracy or completeness of any information contained on this site. Always use proper safety precaution and reference reliable outside sources before attempting any construction or remodeling task!

   

Advertisement

 

Old 07-19-2018, 04:14 AM   #2
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,388
Rewards Points: 486

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by griz View Post
Just curious...

How many of you guys can cut a real bastard roof?

Not gables or easy hips....

I know a guy named Sim?? and a dude Jaws knows in Texas can do it...

not trying to put anyone down...but can you do it?

requires knowing how to use a frame square....

ok, maybe i'm dating myself with the frame square....

now days with apps and calculators.....

I learned from two very old school gentlemen how to cut a real bastard roof, but all I knew how to use was a frame square and a tape...

No BS, who can do it?????


and do you younger guys have any interest in learning this trade?
I do it quite a bit. I generally use a framing square, but if it ties in with an existing roof, I have several other methods. Most of our big roofs are usually bastard roofs, with the front to back pitch being about an 8/12, and the side to side being a 10/12 or 12/12. This puts the steepest roofs in the most visible area which has the best curb appeal.

I started off in a vocational program in high school, which gave me the basics on the framing square. The guy who taught me the most on site, expanded on that with some means that would seem to most as unconventional. I have added other methods based on the situation. We also do a lot of truss bastard roofs, which too most seem easy, but understanding what is happening is essential to it planing out well.

Advertisement

Warren is online now  
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
griz (07-19-2018), Jaws (07-19-2018), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (07-19-2018)
Old 07-19-2018, 06:02 AM   #3
Pro
 
402joel's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 163
Rewards Points: 415

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Yes
Came out of retirement 5 years ago to help my sons perfect their craft as well
Learned in the mid 70ís- for a number of years I would be cutting rafters as the rest of the guys were framing the floor system
Put a real rquirement on parallel and square
Our abilities kept us with a waiting list for many years
I went back a few years ago on google earth to get a birds eye view of some of the roofs we did- it was cool
Wish I had taken pictures back in the day
I was fortunate to have a very stable crew for 20+ years, it made a real difference in production and quality, and we had most of us who were pretty interchangeable after awhile
Hand cut complex roofs were the norm here until 15 years ago or so
__________________
NRA Life Benefactor
SAF Life
402joel is offline  
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to 402joel For This Useful Post:
griz (07-19-2018), Jaws (07-19-2018), Joasis (07-29-2018), overanalyze (07-19-2018)
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-19-2018, 09:16 AM   #4
Goin' Down in Flames....
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne's Avatar
 
Trade: Highwayman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Somewhere Between Heaven And Hell
Posts: 4,738
Rewards Points: 1,972

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Have I ever done it? No.

Could I? I believe so, with Marshall Gross's book in front of me.

The reason I say this, is because a great deal of my building knowledge is "self taught", meaning I got instructions from other guys, books, etc., then went out and did it.

I didn't frame roofs for the guys I worked with. It was all trusses. So I stick built roofs on my projects and learned.

Do I have an interest? ABSOLUTELY! I am a little disappointed that the "cut and stack" days are over, and I never participated. On the other hand, I'm getting more and more into timber framing, and that stuff requires an incredible skill set to do complex roofs with traditional mortise and tenon.

I'm not there yet, but I'm working on it.

Check out Steve Chappell's book "Advanced Timber Framing" for an idea of what I'm talking about. Guy is pure genius.

I'm 41, so I don't know if that makes me an older guy, or one of the young ones.

And I don't do "apps". I don't even own a "smartphone".
Seven-Delta-FortyOne is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:20 AM   #5
Pro
 
tipitop's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,316
Rewards Points: 4,097

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I did it. Was specialist for it in a few companies. Do understand drop of hips, cathedral ceiling hips frame with trusses etc. That cathedral ceiling with trusses was hold open for months at development and other carpenters would show up to see how it should be done. To me that Gross book help a lot too. Guy understand math in roof framing and that help me a lot because I'm good in math from my own.
tipitop is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #6
Member
 
micahmye's Avatar
 
Trade: Remodeling
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: NEPA
Posts: 30
Rewards Points: 64

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I would be interested, havenít got the chance to learn from someone.

Guy I used to work for did one with us once but we measured every rafter and cut to size. The whole time I was thinking thereís gotta be a better way than this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
micahmye is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 11:41 AM   #7
Eater of sins.
 
ScipioAfricanus's Avatar
 
Trade: Designer/Drafter/General Contractor(again)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Orange County, CA.
Posts: 4,295
Rewards Points: 570

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I have never had to do it but I like to think that I could figure it out.

Delusions of grandeur?

Andy.
ScipioAfricanus is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 12:03 PM   #8
The Sheriff

 
Jaws's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,355
Rewards Points: 16,420

Re: Cutting A Roof...


hand cut roofs, were the norm here until a few years ago. Now its roll trusses with a mix of stacked roof cut in. Toughest were on remodels for me as its all pretty simple stuff I've messed with.

Never done a monster bastard roof like your talking about. My old man did a lot more framing like that in the 90s. The houses we started out doing together when we started this company have become 800k-1mm type builds and remodels vs the much smaller ones so look forward to GCing some builds like that as my career progresses

I'd say while we get it done we would be vastly over shadowed by the men who answered 123 in the thread. I have never worked on a professional framing crew, I worked as a carpenter for custom home builders doing all manners of carpentry including framing. That is the old school method from around here, but you rarely see it anymore. Usually sub everything out. To get truly proficient it's something like you're talking about you have to frame a lot of houses.

It will be very rare to see a my opinion not very far in the future along with many other things.

Btw Birch ain't far from here and he definitely is a roof cutter from way back
__________________
"If I have wounds I have two choices, See myself as a victim or see myself as a warrior"

Cheif Joseph
Jaws is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 01:23 PM   #9
Always Learning
 
overanalyze's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder/Remodeler
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 8,408
Rewards Points: 1,582

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I could figure it out...but damn I would be slow as hell. Sometimes the amount of stick frame tie in to complete a truss package makes you wonder if all stick would be easier. 95% of our roofs are truss with stick in-fill. I had dual pitch stick valley to frame last year...it had me scratching my head a bit. I have nothing but respect for guys that can hand stack a roof 100%.
__________________
It is what it is...now fix it.
overanalyze is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to overanalyze For This Useful Post:
Xtrememtnbiker (07-19-2018)
Old 07-19-2018, 01:33 PM   #10
Pro
 
402joel's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 163
Rewards Points: 415

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I just wanted to add, I bought and studied books by Larry Huan, Marshall Gross, and Will Holliday to name a few off the top of my head- still have them-
These guys were my teachers, and I would not have been able to develop without them sharing their knowledge
I know there were thousands of others, and still are today, whose skills I respect and continue to learn from
Some of the stuff Sim Ayers produces, as well as the gentlemen from Texas whose name escapes me - real icons of our profession
__________________
NRA Life Benefactor
SAF Life
402joel is offline  
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 402joel For This Useful Post:
Philament (07-29-2018), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (07-19-2018)
Old 07-19-2018, 02:15 PM   #11
Pro
 
Jay hole's Avatar
 
Trade: General contractor
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 815
Rewards Points: 1,725

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I did a bastard octagon years ago, I snapped it out on the floor then used a construction master to get all the different pitches. Made cut list and went for it.
Went up on the tower and everything came together pretty well!!! But Iíve always just considered myself a hack that lucky to make a buck!!!
Jay hole is offline  
Old 07-19-2018, 07:45 PM   #12
Pro
 
mrcat's Avatar
 
Trade: Pole Barns, Residential Framing
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Fingerlakes NY
Posts: 959
Rewards Points: 486

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Nope, did a porch once with a bastard hip though.
My boss at the time had no idea where to start, so I came home that night and spent a couple hours perusing the interwebs, and got a general idea of how to do it, and muddled my way through it the next day.
I screwed up a couple rafters, but was pretty proud of how it came out.

I absolutely would like to learn how.
I've read through Marshall Gross' book Roof Framing once, now I need to find the time to go back through and actually build the models.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
mrcat is online now  
Old 07-19-2018, 08:25 PM   #13
Geometrist

 
Warren's Avatar
 
Trade: framing/remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 10,388
Rewards Points: 486

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Here is a bell tower we did a few years back. This house had two of them, and we recently did one that had 3. If I recall, the last one we built in stages and boomed up each section.
Attached Thumbnails
Cutting a roof...-bell-tower.jpg  
Warren is online now  
The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Warren For This Useful Post:
griz (07-19-2018), hdavis (07-19-2018), Jaws (07-19-2018), Live Edge (08-15-2018), mrcat (07-19-2018), overanalyze (07-19-2018), Rio (07-19-2018), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (07-20-2018), Xtrememtnbiker (07-19-2018)
Old 07-19-2018, 09:30 PM   #14
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 25,680
Rewards Points: 2,786

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I'm going to say no. I could do it with a hand saw, because you don't set up by the angles.
hdavis is offline  
Old 07-20-2018, 01:22 AM   #15
back doors to hell put in
 
Irishslave's Avatar
 
Trade: Carpenter
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Google knows
Posts: 4,623
Rewards Points: 1,314

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I probably could done plenty of blind valley additions, gazebos, and a few irregular hip-type additions but never done a true bastard. HAP and set backs are critical elements on a lot of roofs.

By the way some of those roof examples in Gross's book look like real nightmares. In fact one is called "the long nighter"
Irishslave is offline  
Old 07-20-2018, 09:28 AM   #16
Pro
 
Xtrememtnbiker's Avatar
 
Trade: General Remodeling
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,011
Rewards Points: 348

Re: Cutting A Roof...


I can do it. I believe in myself...

All jokes aside I've never had to so the answer at the present time would be no.

Would I want to learn how to? Absolutely. The thing is, it's likely that I would never put the skill to use so I would lose it.
Xtrememtnbiker is online now  
Old 07-20-2018, 09:29 AM   #17
Pro
 
tipitop's Avatar
 
Trade: carpenter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,316
Rewards Points: 4,097

Re: Cutting A Roof...


How is possible that so many of you didn't have to cut roofs. If you are carpenter you will have to do it from time to time.
tipitop is offline  
Old 07-20-2018, 09:34 AM   #18
The Sheriff

 
Jaws's Avatar
 
Trade: Builder
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 25,355
Rewards Points: 16,420

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tipitop View Post
How is possible that so many of you didn't have to cut roofs. If you are carpenter you will have to do it from time to time.
It sounds like a many of us have but do not consider ourselves experts in it. Like I said until about 6 or 7 years ago we never used trusses at all, unless it was just a crazy widespan or something and it just made more sense. With the municipalities requiring more and more engineering it is easier to pass that with a trussed roof.

But stacking a roof is not what he is talking about, he is talking about cutting in a monster bastard roof, with a bunch of angles on it and offset hips and varying pitches. Not talking about a cookie cutter roof, which even mcmansions are cookie-cutter roofs for the most part now days here.

I can also Weld and I've done a lot of structural steel and we still do on boat docks, but I do not consider myself a structural steel guy or a welder. Being able to do something does not mean you are good enough at it to say you are in the same company as someone who is an expert at it.

Sent from my ASUS_A009 using Tapatalk
__________________
"If I have wounds I have two choices, See myself as a victim or see myself as a warrior"

Cheif Joseph
Jaws is offline  
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Jaws For This Useful Post:
A&E Exteriors (07-29-2018), hdavis (07-20-2018), Joasis (07-29-2018), micahmye (07-21-2018), overanalyze (07-20-2018), Rio (07-20-2018), Seven-Delta-FortyOne (07-20-2018), Xtrememtnbiker (07-20-2018)
Old 07-20-2018, 09:36 AM   #19
Pro
 
Xtrememtnbiker's Avatar
 
Trade: General Remodeling
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 5,011
Rewards Points: 348

Re: Cutting A Roof...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tipitop View Post
How is possible that so many of you didn't have to cut roofs. If you are carpenter you will have to do it from time to time.
I'm not a framer, I'm a PM/carpenter/tile guy/everything else...

On Wednesday I stick built a ridge and jacks to tie a 7:12 intersecting gable roof into a 6:12 main roof. I knew what I needed to do to get it done and I got it done.

Snapped a line down the valley to get my point to point measurements. Used a level as a straight edge to extend the plane of the gable roof trusses out and mark the location of the jacks in the valley. Measured point to point, set the saw at the appropriate angles, cut jacks, installed jacks.

Would a guy like Warren have done it differently? I sure hope so, other wise he'd lose his shirt framing stuff like that. But that's what he does every day (more or less) I do stuff like that once every year or two.

So I can do basic roof framing, I'm not an expert at it. And I sure as hell couldn't do a big complicated roof in any sort of reasonable time at all. It also wouldn't be worth my while to try.
Xtrememtnbiker is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Xtrememtnbiker For This Useful Post:
overanalyze (07-20-2018)
Old 07-20-2018, 09:38 AM   #20
Pro
 
hdavis's Avatar
 
Trade: remodeling
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: CoastalME
Posts: 25,680
Rewards Points: 2,786

Re: Cutting A Roof...


That's exactly right, Jaws.

Advertisement

hdavis is offline  


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Working on my own roof red_cedar Roofing Picture Post 18 10-18-2013 06:47 PM
Roof gone Bad! Round Dormers, Anyone have experience with them? stombaugh85 Roofing 10 01-03-2013 09:42 AM
Help with ideas, Patio roof kambrooks Carpentry 28 10-09-2012 07:13 PM
Metal Roof - Rain Diverter artinall Roofing 3 08-12-2012 11:00 PM
Roof repair, what to do? offshorehs Roofing 15 02-19-2012 11:25 PM

Join Now... It's Fast and FREE!

I am a professional contractor
I am a DIY Homeowner
Drywall Talk is for
PROFESSIONAL CONTRACTORS ONLY!

At DrywallTalk.com we cater exlusivly to professional contractors who make their living as a contractor. Knowing that many homeowners and DIYers are looking for a community to call home, we've created www.DIYChatroom.com DIY Chatroom is full of helpful advices and perfect for DIY homeowners.

Redirecing in 10 seconds
No Thanks
terms of service

Already Have an Account?