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Asking For More Money

 
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Old 04-13-2013, 09:14 AM   #141
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Re: Asking For More Money


Update. Untold her i can not financially support the work. So she called the code inspector I haven't spoke to the code inspector twt
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:16 AM   #142
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Re: Asking For More Money


WWWWHHHHHAAAATTTTTTTTTTTT? that's has to be cruel and unusual punishment! We haven't heard from ebud in like a week and the suspense is killing us. And then he updates us with almost two sentences. How did you tell her? What did she say? Why is the code inspector called? Was this all unpermitted? If so why? Was it at her request for no permit? Or yours? Do you have a license to build or not?............will little Timmy make it out of the well? .............can Lassie get help in time before its too late? Will many more contractors stumble upon this post and add more in site to the conversation?......... stay tuned to the next instalment of "asking for more money"
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:50 AM   #143
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Re: Asking For More Money


I spoke with the woman on the phone. It's nice one over the contract with her. And explain to her that I need more money to complete the project due to unforeseen circumstances in added costs as well as her preaching the contract. I told her that the breach of contract where she bought materials undercut my Markup And while she stockpiled the materials inside the house they were not coordinated with what we needed to do. Therefore we constantly had to work around the materials caught adding more time to the project.
She told me that she had no money. And that she still want me to complete the work. I told her I was not financially stable enough to complete her project without her supplying the money. And I explained that I had Fronted the cost of the start of the project and I have not yet be being reimbursed for that. Explained her that the contract stated that it was a possibility for cost increase from the beginning of the project. And that her excuse for no money was not a good one. I told her To let's try and come up with something. And we ended the conversation like that. Before the conversation depended she did state that she would sue me if she had to. And press charges. I told her I can't do anymore work without her going me money.
I did pull permits for this job I have been in contact with the cold officer throughout the entirety of this project. The homeowner called the code officer. The code officer showed up to another job site that I have going on, However I was not present when he showed up. The code officer explained to one of my subcontractors who was present that I cannot just walk off the job. And they didn't want I get the attorney general involved. My subcontractor explained that she did not have anymore money and that I cannot financially support the job. So the code officer left him with a message for me to call him. Which I did several times but no answer
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:13 PM   #144
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Re: Asking For More Money


I believe the code officer is on your side as much as they can be on a side. So for her to use the code Dept. Is weak at best. As for a lawsuit goes if she has money for an attorney then she has the money to finish the job. Not to mention a lawyer would have a hard time to justify most or all of it.

Since she is the one changing the intended agreement. (Tile instead of vinyl flooring). You see she can't go into a restaurant order a "beef hamburger" and when it shows up to the table say "where the F' is my steak?" Argue about the order and say well I did want "beef steak" (to her its the same thing since they both are beef! And that tile and vinyl flooring are both flooring! However in our kitchen analogy here the cook knows that preparing the two are done differently as well as the cost of materials) and then after she eats the entire steak and has dessert and a few more glasses of wine and the bill shows up she says

"you can't charge me for the steak, dessert and wine because I only brought enough money for a hamburger"

Now in this scenario the restaurant can legally charge her for everything and the hamburger too. Refusal to pay is known as theft of services. In the restaurant biz you can survive a couple of unpaid orders. But when we are in the contractor biz the financial leverage is too large to turn away from. If she had given you a bunch of money up front and walked away you would need to panic. But any judge would see that you started and carried the money to do so out of your own pocket . And her refusal to pay is known as "theft of services" in court it she would be forced to pay since she has financially gained through her real estate. (Thus the reason for liens to reimburse that owed to people from the home owners.)

Food for thought to help your case and not put the code officer in the mix any longer is to ask him in an email that "everything on that project to date has met or exceeded code levels so far' and nothing else (this is only a factual statement that keeps them out of the fight. And let's her know she can't use that threat anymore)

You need to be her hero. But in order to do that she will need to realize that she has fallen off the cliff and you are the only person that owns a rope. You can offer for her to return things like the the tile and the gold plated toilets and give you the money and you will go get the materials in the original scope if work after she gets you the money.

Also if you have her email I would urge to communicate that way and that will give you a paper trail of what you actually said and her responses back. It will speed up the facts of your case and save your butt to award your money to you. Also if you know who the bank is that has loaned her the money. And no joke here talk with them asap.........now they may not be aloud to tell you anything and that is fine. But there is no law that says they can't listen to your side of the deal. And if they find that they have loaned a money on real estate and its not going there they may write any further checks to both of you and she can't party with the money anymore as well as tell her to pay you pronto! Your ass is on the line here as well as your biz. Don't let some idiot run it into the ground and by idiot I mean YOU! Do what you need to whether you like it or not. Lots of other professionals on here are pulling for you as well as your family is too. But no one is going to make you fight your own fights. But don't let us down.


(Unger Construction Eats popcorn on the edge seat waiting for more episodes to arrive)
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:40 PM   #145
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Re: Asking For More Money


I don't see it going well in court to leave someone's house unfinished. I'm just looking at it objectively that if a homeowner enters into a $100k addition/remodel but only has 25K to work with (whether knowingly or not), a contractor can't just removed the living room and kitchen exterior walls and say they can't proceed without more money. As a contractor, you'll be forced to close the house up at the very least so that the house can be occupied, even if it's doing so with YOUR money and all that you can do is put a lien on the property. All this does is cover you and make you look as good as you possible can to a judge. If the contract was only 10% off, odds are that the house is closed off and livable, you're just forced to wait on money, wait on a court date, or wait until you have no choice to put a lien on the property.

It's a tough spot to be in and I do feel bad for you, but this is the learning experience that books get written about.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #146
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Re: Asking For More Money


I need enough money to put a new roof on. And she is in a livable situation. Everything else that needs to be done is only cosmetic. However I don't have the money for the roof
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:44 PM   #147
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Re: Asking For More Money


In my little town, the inspector also works as a mediator to help folks stay out of court, I don't know about Elbuds town.

You might as well get your bankruptsy papers written up, because that is where this is headed. Sorry, bro.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:45 PM   #148
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Re: Asking For More Money


Do you think my corporation status will save personal assets
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:51 PM   #149
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Re: Asking For More Money


Quote:
Originally Posted by elbud433 View Post
Do you think my corporation status will save personal assets
Lol, yeah. I was being sarcastic about the bankruptsy, but yeah.

Best thing you could do for your own self and reputation is to eat it for the next year and work other projects overtime to pay for that one.

I personally would want to pack up and leave town, but that solves nothing.

Keep us posted as things progress. Wish you the best.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:52 PM   #150
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Re: Asking For More Money


Thanks
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #151
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Re: Asking For More Money


Contact the bank.. If she got a loan they need a lein release, If she used funds that are yours then she MUST be held to task.
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Old 04-13-2013, 04:32 PM   #152
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Re: Asking For More Money


If you are actually as broke as you say you are then who cares if you're going to be sued. Can't get blood from a stone.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:20 PM   #153
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Re: Asking For More Money


I need some feedback on the thought I have. The contract spells out payment milestones. The first of these is a deposit or initial payment. You then take the project to a set point of completion at which point the next scheduled payment it due. This back and forth is set up so that neither party is fronting all the risk or all the money. If the customer is not paying as agreed in the proposal, shouldn't the contractor be able to tell the customer that work will not continue until the customer is current with the agreed payments. I have never had to do this but as I work out my payment milestones I have always thought this is how the process works. I agree you cant tell some one you are not going to finish the project but you should be able to tell them you are going to have to put there project on hold because they have failed to pay as agreed. This happens in every industry. As a read this I keep wondering if the op is not telling the full story because this isn't what happened. I could just be that uniformed on this subject. If that is the case I would like to know right away. I envision myself fronting little risk because of the back and forth structure of the payments. If I am actually locked in to continuing each project regardless of my customers actions, I would want to do credit checks before I start working for some one on any larger project.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:31 AM   #154
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Re: Asking For More Money


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankSmith View Post
I need some feedback on the thought I have. The contract spells out payment milestones. The first of these is a deposit or initial payment. You then take the project to a set point of completion at which point the next scheduled payment it due. This back and forth is set up so that neither party is fronting all the risk or all the money. If the customer is not paying as agreed in the proposal, shouldn't the contractor be able to tell the customer that work will not continue until the customer is current with the agreed payments. I have never had to do this but as I work out my payment milestones I have always thought this is how the process works. I agree you cant tell some one you are not going to finish the project but you should be able to tell them you are going to have to put there project on hold because they have failed to pay as agreed. This happens in every industry. As a read this I keep wondering if the op is not telling the full story because this isn't what happened. I could just be that uniformed on this subject. If that is the case I would like to know right away. I envision myself fronting little risk because of the back and forth structure of the payments. If I am actually locked in to continuing each project regardless of my customers actions, I would want to do credit checks before I start working for some one on any larger project.
What you suggest does make some sense.

In the current case, it is safe to say that this situation would not have developed if the contractor was a more seasoned business pro. I'm not saying that the contractor is wrong, but his bull chyt detector will hereby get reprogrammed and this scenario is much less likely to ever happen again. Been there, done that.

For the new guys reading this, these customers exist. It is your job to recognize them and not allow yourself to do business with them until such point you are a good enough business man to manage the risks.

It's not all about the sticks and bricks.

PS, in my jurisdiction, receiving goods or services from someone with no intent to pay for them is a criminal offense. Theft of services is against the law.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:03 PM   #155
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Re: Asking For More Money


TALK TO THE BANKER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why are you screwing up you biz.......your life........your reputation,,,,,,,,,,your family????? All because this chic is screwy?

I just built a small house for my neighbor (the husbands sister wanted a 600s.f. House to live in by herself) and it was a little rough at times for a few reasons but it got built.......and finished (fun little house) well long story short here most of the problems came from him wanting to take short cuts on things and pull stupid moves for no logical reason......after a while I saw his pattern got thru to the end of the project. Then they asked for a bid to build a new privacy fence around the back half of the property to enclose behind the main house and surround the sisters little house. I tried to be nice about being too busy to even work on a bid. But the wife kept asking and wanted to describe the layout..........the short version was that the property line between us has been used to go around there house and over our property to walk around (they have a corner lot with public streets on two side as well as plenty of access not on our side) and she wanted to put a gate on the new fence to keep things private between us and yet have a gate that would open to our property so they could walk through our yard as they pleased. I might it nicely known that a gate on the property line would be not so good of an idea. Then several days later the husband put out several stakes and a string that went clearly into our yard and carved out a chunk of land from us. My wife asked him why was there string in our yard and he eventually yelled at her saying that that is the new property line (there was a survey stake from last summer showing where the property line was when the new house was built) and thats where he thinks it should go now and the survey was wrong and that we can't just cut off access to his property like that.

So just like with the lady that is jerking you around.............I had it and sent them a long email warning to never talk to my wife like that again or things will be not good for anyone and that he had 24hrs to remove the string or else blah blah blah. I don't think they left the house for three days The point is I had enough of people who think that they can walk all over us either personal or work and if being the nice guy for too long isn't working then do something else....do ANYTHING else!!!!!!!
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:49 PM   #156
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Re: Asking For More Money


Quote:
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If the customer is not paying as agreed in the proposal, shouldn't the contractor be able to tell the customer that work will not continue until the customer is current with the agreed payments.
My lawyer says that the contract has to have a 'stop work notice' if the contractor wants to stop work because of a customers failure to make progress payments. If no clause exists, a contractor cannot stop work without breaching the contract.

Apparently, there is legal precedence for a customer to recover damages from a contractor that stops work for non payment, without a 'stop work' clause in the contract.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:50 PM   #157
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Re: Asking For More Money


Quote:
Originally Posted by TimberlineMD

My lawyer says that the contract has to have a 'stop work notice' if the contractor wants to stop work because of a customers failure to make progress payments. If no clause exists, a contractor cannot stop work without breaching the contract.

Apparently, there is legal precedence for a customer to recover damages from a contractor that stops work for non payment, without a 'stop work' clause in the contract.
Yea but all you have to do is send a guy there for 10 minutes a day
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:39 PM   #158
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Re: Asking For More Money


I have a Saftey hazard clause that says if a Saftey issue exists then work may hault at any time until the issue is fixed. And if the issue is not proven to be caused by the contractor then the home owner must pay for such issues. So there is a stop work clause. Only for Saftey/ health hazards
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:43 PM   #159
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Re: Asking For More Money


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I have a Saftey hazard clause that says if a Saftey issue exists then work may hault at any time until the issue is fixed. And if the issue is not proven to be caused by the contractor then the home owner must pay for such issues. So there is a stop work clause. Only for Saftey/ health hazards
All jobs have them, easy to find safty hazards
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:58 PM   #160
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Re: Asking For More Money


Good luck brother
I have to say I am learning more about customers like this as well
I try to please My customer's and tend to not like confrontation , Unfortunately people like this can sense this and proceed to take advantage .
I hope this works out for you and I am sure you will learn from this lesson
Personally I just learned a 1400 dollar lesson myself because i was not specific enough about what was not included in my scope and by not getting a signed and agreed upon change order amount as soon as the words left the customers mouth about a couple changes
I wont make that mistake again

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