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Siding Choices

 
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:46 PM   #61
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Re: Siding Choices


Looks so modern, doesn't it......

I like the splicing on every other one.
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Old 01-25-2012, 07:51 PM   #62
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Re: Siding Choices


Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophilus20 View Post
"Im all in for Hardi.
It doesnt rot,
It doesnt burn or warp when you get a BBQer next to it,
It doesnt creak when the sun comes out,
It doesnt blow off in a good wind,
You dont hve to face any laps away from the street,
Most dogs wont chew on it just for fun,
It doesnt fade in the sun or get brittle over time,
You can lean on it without putting a kink in it,
It will hold paint for nearly ever,
and with a GOOD caulking, it is water proof,
And most of all, It doesnt FEEL CHEAP. "
I agree with the ones in bold.

Steel is a better option, IMO. Especially the newer stuff with the Teflon coating. Emco and Edco
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:34 PM   #63
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by oldfrt View Post
I think it pretty much comes down to what each HO wants and the
local opinion on each product is. Certain areas almost dictate
the use of certain materials,because of climate,economics,or
personal preferences.

Both products have pros and cons.The problems that have plagued
Hardi steer me away from making a recommendation at this point,
and I really don't get any requests for it anyways.

On one point we can all agree,most of the value is in the quality of
the installation with steps taken to ensure a watertight system.
There really isn't too much compensating for vinyl installation,
its just doing it the right way.
I imagine if your use to "slamming it up"it may seem like more work.
If you are taught the right way in the beginning.Then it is just routine.

Its like doing roof overs without addressing the old flashing.Not the right way!!
The flashing is part of the roof system,as it is in siding.

Theo

Would you care to share or elaborate on this?
I found over the years that theere ended up being one MFG problem and one Design problem.

The MFG problem was that when the Portland cement/ paper fiber was mixed that there would be areas that didnt get mixed very well.
This would cause an area of too much paper fiber for the mixture.
We saw this everyonce in a while. out of a full unti of hardie we would see 10-15 pc with this problem.
After some playing around with these spots, it seemed that if you soak these spots that they would swell.
I dont remember seeing any of these in certanteed, but they enterd the cement board siding market way later and i was reluctant to change. Plus, i thought that certanteed was too brittle.

The desigh problem was that it is made of portland cement.
Portland cement contains lime. lime eats everything eventually.
I first noticed this when we were building a church in Oregon. we had an elderly man question the product and we told him what it was. He brought up the point about the lime. So we went inside and found a nail that had missed a stud, grabbed it with plires and pulled it through. and sure enough, about 5/16 under the nead of the nail was no longer brite like the rest of the nail. It wasnt a huge differance but, with a magnifying glass, you could really tell the differance.
I went to an agricultural chemist that i knew through a girl friend at the tim and asked what he thought.
A couple of weeks later i saw him and he agreed. The siding was in the process of eating the nail.
The siding had been on the wall for about 6 mos and was installed under a sealed deck where no water can get to it.
He did say that, at that rate you would have 80 yrs before you would see a prob.
But, if you introduce mouisture to the product through a scratch in the surface and get that scratch wet, or the paint is not good, or a window seam, butt seam, caoner seam is not properly caulked, it will accelerate the deteriation process.

Interesting isint it.
There still isnt any bullit proof product out there.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:37 PM   #64
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by MJW View Post
I agree with the ones in bold.

Steel is a better option, IMO. Especially the newer stuff with the Teflon coating. Emco and Edco
I really like steel.
It has some of the same things in terms of flashing that you need to watch out for, but, it is a better product.
One of the biggest differances about steel vs vinyl is that steel doesnt have that cheep feel.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:41 PM   #65
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Re: Siding Choices


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These are picture of a house just up the road from you in Helena,across the strreet from a steel job I did this last year. it is a pretty poor install of Hardi , but you can also see the cracking and fading of the paint . This was a factory pre-painted stuff.
Ickkkeeeeeee!
That is a bad install plus it has the cheep paint effect to help accentuate the bad work!

If it was done by North West Factory Finishes, it has a guarantee.
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Old 01-25-2012, 08:49 PM   #66
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Re: Siding Choices


I asked my local Building Mtrls store to read this forum.
I didnt tell them who was who, or, who is for what.

The store mgr wanted to comment on here, but, he said he had to be careful cause he has to carry both mentioned products.

The guys in the office did LOL about there being a comparison between the two products.
The managers statement was that "there is no comparison, they are always bought for different reasons.
One is bought for its quality and feel.
The other is bought for its price.
Here where i live, all the vinyl is sold in town. All the hardie is sold to custom homes of all sizes.
Butte is a poor town.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:17 PM   #67
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by MJW View Post
I agree with the ones in bold.

Steel is a better option, IMO. Especially the newer stuff with the Teflon coating. Emco and Edco

99% of my siding jobs are steel. I use Alside which has been a pretty good panel, EDCO don't use anymore because of the cost. Cost me 50/60 $ a square more. Emco use their soffit material which I like and is a good price on it too. Have used their siding which has a ceramic finish on it now. They have all the older colors , but don't use it much because it does not lock nice. More or less just hangs.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:29 PM   #68
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by Theophilus20 View Post
I asked my local Building Mtrls store to read this forum.

yea cause it a well known fact that salesmen know all about the products they sell...give me a break
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:33 PM   #69
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Re: Siding Choices


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yea cause it a well known fact that salesmen know all about the products they sell...give me a break
You can always count on a salesman to not really tell you the truth about their product. If they tell you something it just has to be true.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:41 PM   #70
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Re: Siding Choices


i had a feeling and that cinched it for me
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:44 PM   #71
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by Randy Bush View Post
99% of my siding jobs are steel. I use Alside which has been a pretty good panel, EDCO don't use anymore because of the cost. Cost me 50/60 $ a square more. Emco use their soffit material which I like and is a good price on it too. Have used their siding which has a ceramic finish on it now. They have all the older colors , but don't use it much because it does not lock nice. More or less just hangs.
Nice to know, I haven't used Emco yet. Edco's dutch lap goes together very good though.
Did you use dutch lap with the Emco and not have good results with it locking, or was it double 4?

We had a meeting with an Emco rep and of course he said it was great, mainly because it does not heat up because of the Teflon coating. Then I saw that Edco now has the same coating.

On my own house and a few clients we used Edco dutch lap about 4 years ago and it went together great. Wish I had the new coating though.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:55 PM   #72
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Re: Siding Choices


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Nice to know, I haven't used Emco yet. Edco's dutch lap goes together very good though.
Did you use dutch lap with the Emco and not have good results with it locking, or was it double 4?

We had a meeting with an Emco rep and of course he said it was great, mainly because it does not heat up because of the Teflon coating. Then I saw that Edco now has the same coating.

On my own house and a few clients we used Edco dutch lap about 4 years ago and it went together great. Wish I had the new coating though.
all I have used of it so far is 8" and I use drop in foam on it too. Which they don't recommend,but it does not lay right other wise. I have heard that the douple stuff locks up better though. When is the last time you used Emco? because for the past year it has not had the Teflon ,but has the ceramic coating now.

Do you guys use much steel in your area?
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:58 AM   #73
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Re: Siding Choices


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You can always count on a salesman to not really tell you the truth about their product. If they tell you something it just has to be true.
I guess that all depends on which side of this conversation you are on, doesnt it
Next week it may be a different story for either if us.
Like i said in one of my previous posts: Sales ppl are as much of the problem with vinyl as anyone.

I jus thought it was funny.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:40 AM   #74
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Re: Siding Choices


it's funny how fc went from waterproof to weather resistant to your screwed if it gets scratched all in one thread

you have posted no evidence that you really know what your talking about but if you stick around here long enough you may learn from the guys that do
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:46 AM   #75
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Re: Siding Choices


Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Bush View Post
all I have used of it so far is 8" and I use drop in foam on it too. Which they don't recommend,but it does not lay right other wise. I have heard that the douple stuff locks up better though. When is the last time you used Emco? because for the past year it has not had the Teflon ,but has the ceramic coating now.

Do you guys use much steel in your area?
It's been a few years. We have maybe 1 in 20 homeowners that will pay for steel. 90% of the work in the past 3 years is replacing builder grade vinyl from hail damage with heavier vinyl.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:18 AM   #76
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Re: Siding Choices


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It's been a few years. We have maybe 1 in 20 homeowners that will pay for steel. 90% of the work in the past 3 years is replacing builder grade vinyl from hail damage with heavier vinyl.
Personally,I think the manufacturers should take the builders
grade siding off the market.It gives vinyl a bad name and allows
a false sense of durability to the HO's who have it installed or
buy new homes where the builders "cheap out".

A lot of this grade of siding bought at the box stores gets installed by
HO's and jack legs with little regard for a quality installation,reinforcing
any negative attitudes towards all vinyl products.

I understand that there is a market for the builders grade,I just have a
hard time wrapping my head around doing so much labor to install a
cheaper product.Kind of like going back to using 15 year shingles.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:33 AM   #77
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Re: Siding Choices


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It's been a few years. We have maybe 1 in 20 homeowners that will pay for steel. 90% of the work in the past 3 years is replacing builder grade vinyl from hail damage with heavier vinyl.
Funny how different parts of the country are so different in material used. I did a vinyl repair job week so ago , first one in over 10 years had to remember how to even do some of it.

Have you use any of the Heartland vinyl that Emco sells ? looks like some nice stuff, for vinyl, It all has it place.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:15 AM   #78
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Re: Siding Choices


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Originally Posted by Tom Struble View Post
it's funny how fc went from waterproof to weather resistant to your screwed if it gets scratched all in one thread

you have posted no evidence that you really know what your talking about but if you stick around here long enough you may learn from the guys that do
Hey Tom,
You never have responded to post #51.
Could you give us your comments on the items i have put up for comparrison please?

And thanks for letting me stay around here with you smart ppl.
I am trying to learn. (I assume your talking about yourself)
So, if we could go through some comparison items in post 51, then we could move on from there.
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Last edited by Theophilus20; 01-26-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:22 PM   #79
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Re: Siding Choices


Quote:
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Funny how different parts of the country are so different in material used. I did a vinyl repair job week so ago , first one in over 10 years had to remember how to even do some of it.

Have you use any of the Heartland vinyl that Emco sells ? looks like some nice stuff, for vinyl, It all has it place.
Never used anything from Emco yet. One of our suppliers just started carrying it. The Rep was really excited about selling their steel and does have a lot of good points.

For vinyl we usually use Certainteed, OC (very heavy siding .048), Revere, Crane and a few others that have at least a .044 panel with a 3/4 lap and double hem.
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Old 01-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #80
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Re: Siding Choices


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Hey Tom,
You never have responded to post #51.
Could you give us your comments on the items i have put up for comparrison please?

And thanks for letting me stay around here with you smart ppl.
I am trying to learn. (I assume your talking about yourself)
So, if we could go through some comparison items in post 51, then we could move on from there.
NADA?
Im tryimg to learn from the smart ppl here.

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