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Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding

 
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:59 AM   #1
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Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


boss is workin ona bid to redo a 8 yaer old house withmajor damag. it was vinal sided with nothin underneath but bareosb. he is lookin at maybe costplus . gotta start to find alldamages. lots of rot and mold issues. what is wrong with some bilders?
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Old 05-18-2013, 06:58 AM   #2
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


We built a lot of homes 20 years ago with just osb on the walls. I have remodeled many homes like that, and really haven't found a lot of differences in the amount of damage vs homes with house wrap. We also installed thousands of windows before the sill flashings and flange tapes were required.

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Old 05-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #3
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Hey Mavis.... good to see you posting. How ya doin' man?
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:01 AM   #4
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
We built a lot of homes 20 years ago with just osb on the walls. I have remodeled many homes like that, and really haven't found a lot of differences in the amount of damage vs homes with house wrap. We also installed thousands of windows before the sill flashings and flange tapes were required.
I remember having the same roll of tape in my truck for something like 5 years. We just used it to tape up boxes of siding and trim. Our main contractor always shook his head and told us it was too expensive to use that way. It's the only thing we used it for in those days. Or if we were out of band-aids.

Also lots of foam without tape or overlapped seams. I started over lapping seams because it seemed like a good idea. No pun intended. It wasn't until just a few years ago that tape and overlapping everything became an issue.

Funny how everything seemed like the wild west only a short 15 or 20 years ago. Now they tell us how to wizz in a porta-john.
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:42 AM   #5
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


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Hey Mavis.... good to see you posting. How ya doin' man?
goood thankyou
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Old 05-19-2013, 02:43 AM   #6
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


mi boss use 30 poun felt. he fanatic bout waterprroofing. but we harly ever use vinal. mostly use hardiplank.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:20 AM   #7
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Check out my post 456....
https://www.contractortalk.com/f3/wal...18495/index23/
yeah, not covering wood sheeting is a fantastic idea...it's so ridiculous, even the old builders had sense enough to cover it with felt paper. We've done alot of work on older homes, and the one constant, homes that were flashed properly and used tar paper over exterior sheeting..still was in great shape even 30-50yrs later.

NOT using home wrap/felt paper...something under the vinyl is about as hack style as you can get, since vinyl is not, was never designed to be water proof..it's a lipstick material, made to 'look" pretty, but provide basically zero protection.
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:31 AM   #8
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


your last comment is true about all siding,not just vinyl
it is the primary wrb which sheds most bulk water intrusion and protects the secondary wrb..your ''paper''

you will normally less damage under vinyl than you would under an absorbing or ''reservoir'' type siding imo
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Old 05-19-2013, 07:41 AM   #9
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


The inherent problem with other types of siding is that it depends more so on flashing detail to help with inital water shed, but even more on caulking. Masonite that was a hit back in the 70's and early 80's for example...homes we worked on that used masonite that was well taken care of by persistant homeowners, joints kept up on with caulking that would crack...the underlying wall sheeting weather it was fiberboard, cdx, or foam, would all be in like new shape. Flip side that was the majority of homes that used masonite for example and lacked maintanence, the wall sheeting showed obvious signs of water intrusion with either swelled fiberboard, black/delaminating cdx, or moldy foam board.

point being, while hardi board/cement board is a great product unto itself, it also is only reliant on caulked joints to prevent water from getting behind it. so simplest terms, everything benefits from having a barrier under the siding to protect the structure as that is the last line of defense for when water will penetrate the "pretty" layer....sure cement based products will hold up better than wood based products long term, but the flaw is joints, points of entry...and there is nothing out there that "does'nt need" some sort of barrier over the main structure.
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Old 05-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #10
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


We did a 5 year old masonite sided home and it had mushrooms growing on it.
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:36 PM   #11
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI View Post
The inherent problem with other types of siding is that it depends more so on flashing detail to help with inital water shed, but even more on caulking. Masonite that was a hit back in the 70's and early 80's for example...homes we worked on that used masonite that was well taken care of by persistant homeowners, joints kept up on with caulking that would crack...the underlying wall sheeting weather it was fiberboard, cdx, or foam, would all be in like new shape. Flip side that was the majority of homes that used masonite for example and lacked maintanence, the wall sheeting showed obvious signs of water intrusion with either swelled fiberboard, black/delaminating cdx, or moldy foam board.

point being, while hardi board/cement board is a great product unto itself, it also is only reliant on caulked joints to prevent water from getting behind it. so simplest terms, everything benefits from having a barrier under the siding to protect the structure as that is the last line of defense for when water will penetrate the "pretty" layer....sure cement based products will hold up better than wood based products long term, but the flaw is joints, points of entry...and there is nothing out there that "does'nt need" some sort of barrier over the main structure.
..ah..huh?
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Old 05-21-2013, 08:50 PM   #12
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Vinyl has lots of air space behind the panel to dry. A windowless wall may never have a problem.

Last edited by Tom M; 05-22-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:24 AM   #13
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHI View Post
The inherent problem with other types of siding is that it depends more so on flashing detail to help with inital water shed, but even more on caulking. Masonite that was a hit back in the 70's and early 80's for example...homes we worked on that used masonite that was well taken care of by persistant homeowners, joints kept up on with caulking that would crack...the underlying wall sheeting weather it was fiberboard, cdx, or foam, would all be in like new shape. Flip side that was the majority of homes that used masonite for example and lacked maintanence, the wall sheeting showed obvious signs of water intrusion with either swelled fiberboard, black/delaminating cdx, or moldy foam board.

point being, while hardi board/cement board is a great product unto itself, it also is only reliant on caulked joints to prevent water from getting behind it. so simplest terms, everything benefits from having a barrier under the siding to protect the structure as that is the last line of defense for when water will penetrate the "pretty" layer....sure cement based products will hold up better than wood based products long term, but the flaw is joints, points of entry...and there is nothing out there that "does'nt need" some sort of barrier over the main structure.
ok..re read..got it now
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:37 AM   #14
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


but see we know that caulked joints rarely keep water out,J channels do not keep out water,wood or cement based products pull moisture right thru them which is one main reasons they are best placed on a so called rain screen so contact with the wall is broken

i think most cladding joints should be left open,pocketed trim to improve the looks and ease installation of the siding works well with the right flashing details

also priming all cuts and maintaining clearance with abutments goes a long way to help reduce the amount of moisture in these absorbing materials
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:45 AM   #15
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


We've done some repairs to fiber cement recently where there had been leak issues around a window. As we started pulling off the FC, not only did it have mold on the back (some panels were actually BLACK), it literally started crumbling. We ended up pulling off a good portion of the product on an entire wall on one house, because everywhere we pulled, it had mold on the back.

Like Tom rightly says, the FC absorbs and holds moisture. On this particular house, all the butt joints were caulked, which made the problem worse IMHO. He's also right that "maintaining clearance" is extremely important as well. There needs to be SOME air movement behind the siding so that the moisture (whether coming through the siding, around flashing details or from the house itself) can evaporate.

I'm glad I don't like the stuff. I didn't like it when I was introduced to it in 1996 and I still don't like it today. I refuse to sell it.
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Last edited by CompleteW&D; 05-22-2013 at 07:50 AM. Reason: damn typos....
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:39 AM   #16
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Isn't there supposed to be flashing behind the butt joints in fc siding? And caulking butt joints is a no no
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Old 05-22-2013, 11:46 AM   #17
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Here's a pic of a window I installed yesterday on a vinyl sided cabin without housewrap or felt. Sheathing was still in decent shape and is 50 years old. I flashed the window so that any moisture that finds it's way around the j channel would follow the flashing down and out the weep holes of the course of siding below the window.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:29 PM   #18
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


exactly call it what you will but you usually find less visible damage under vinyl without a wrb under it than you would under almost any other siding imo
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Old 05-22-2013, 08:16 PM   #19
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
We built a lot of homes 20 years ago with just osb on the walls. I have remodeled many homes like that, and really haven't found a lot of differences in the amount of damage vs homes with house wrap. We also installed thousands of windows before the sill flashings and flange tapes were required.
I am 100% with Warren on this one.

(Any minute, Tom Struble will come in here and fire one across my bow...)
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:06 PM   #20
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Re: Only Osb Behind Vinal Siding


Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren View Post
We built a lot of homes 20 years ago with just osb on the walls. I have remodeled many homes like that, and really haven't found a lot of differences in the amount of damage vs homes with house wrap. We also installed thousands of windows before the sill flashings and flange tapes were required.


hous wrap useless without proper adhesive flashin at door an windows can even be worse

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